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Post by tommymorris on Aug 15, 2022 11:28:27 GMT -6
I am developing a recipe for Festbier for 2022.
I’m am thinking 65/35 Pilsner malt and either Vienna or RedX. I have a lot of both on hand. Vienna seems like a good choice. But, I am wondering what the RedX would taste like (and I am trying to get rid of the RedX).
I am planning about 1050 OG. I am not sure on the hops. I’ll either go with Tettnang or Spalt with medium hop flavor and 20-25 IBU.
I will use Diamond Lager yeast.
Thoughts?
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Post by Ken on Aug 15, 2022 16:23:59 GMT -6
I feel like 65/35 pilsner/vienna will be very pale and you won't get that classic Festbier character that comes from the Munich 2. The RedX could help with that but I wonder about 35% RedX. I know it's quite assertive, deep and malty. My next brew session will be a festbier... 65/35 Pils/Munich 2 and 27 IBUs of Spalt Select and this Omega German Lager 1 yeast which is supposed to be WLP830 German Lager.
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Post by tommymorris on Aug 15, 2022 21:11:44 GMT -6
I did Munich 2 last year. I actually bought it this year for this beer, but I was thinking of trying something different even though last year’s version was awesome.
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Post by Ken on Aug 15, 2022 21:58:39 GMT -6
I did Munich 2 last year. I actually bought it this year for this beer, but I was thinking of trying something different even though last year’s version was awesome. I feel like there are beers where you can play, experiment, etc. and Festbier is one of those but for me, the character from Munich 2 in such a simple recipe is what makes the beer. I don't know that I could get the same character from any other malt. I have played with the percentages (50/50, 60/40, 65/35, etc), the hops and the yeast. I think would go with Tettnanger, Hallertau, Spalt, Edelweiss and some others and I would use a number of different yeasts including 2124, 2308, Bayern, etc. but I don't know that I would take the Munich 2 out of it. That's just me. This Omega German Lager 1 seems like it will work beautifully.
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Post by brewbama on Aug 16, 2022 9:35:52 GMT -6
You may have seen this comment on AHA:
Yrs ago, TechBrau posted this recipe (among others) on the German Brewing Forum before it imploded.
Festbier - OG 13.5 Plato 70-90% Pilsner malt at 3.5 EBC 0-30% Vienna malt at 8 EBC 0-30% Munich malt at 15 EBC 0-10% caramel malt at 25 EBC (Carahell) 18-24 IBUs
I am thinking 75% Pils, 12.5% Vienna, 12.5% Munich without the Cara.
I am becoming less and less a fan of lager yeast due to the sulfur-ish-ness. I know it’s considered a tell tail of a lager but I just don’t like it. I much prefer a cleaner yeast. Having said that, I had a fantastic Schwarzbier last night and didn’t detect any sulfur. It was the best commercial beer I’ve had in ages. So… I had another (the barrel aged version).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Megary on Aug 16, 2022 9:58:10 GMT -6
I have a Festbier planned for late September (maybe it will be a NovemberFest!).
75% Pils 25% Munich Magnum at the top and a touch of Sterling at the end. Diamond.
I strongly considered using BRY-97 for the sulfur reasons that BB describes (hey, it's my beer), but decided to stick with a lager yeast.
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Post by Ken on Aug 16, 2022 12:03:29 GMT -6
I have a Festbier planned for late September (maybe it will be a NovemberFest!). 75% Pils 25% Munich Magnum at the top and a touch of Sterling at the end. Diamond. I strongly considered using BRY-97 for the sulfur reasons that BB describes (hey, it's my beer), but decided to stick with a lager yeast. Is that Munich 1 or 2? On the sulphury thing... there is supposed to be some. The guys on the LO forum described it as a slight "matchstick" aroma you would get. I believe you can effectively reduce or remove that character by using the quick lager method. Allow the beer to begin fermentation around 50° or so and let it go until it's at least halfway through the process. I typically wait about 4 days. Then move it to a warmer spot and let it go at that temp. Any off-flavors that would result from a warmer temp only develop during the early part of the fermentation. With some amount of active fermentation occurring at a higher temp, you can scrub out unwanted character which includes sulfur but also diacetyl. I have concluded that all these yeasts have their place. The ales I made this spring with S-04 were fantastic. The beers I made with 940 were also excellent. Now I have this Omega German Lager 1 running and assume it will make great beers too. Cheers Beerheads.
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Post by denny on Aug 16, 2022 12:36:38 GMT -6
I feel like 65/35 pilsner/vienna will be very pale and you won't get that classic Festbier character that comes from the Munich 2. The RedX could help with that but I wonder about 35% RedX. I know it's quite assertive, deep and malty. My next brew session will be a festbier... 65/35 Pils/Munich 2 and 27 IBUs of Spalt Select and this Omega German Lager 1 yeast which is supposed to be WLP830 German Lager. A Fest bier is supposed to be very light, though, right? Often described as a strong helles.
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Post by Megary on Aug 16, 2022 13:08:39 GMT -6
I have a Festbier planned for late September (maybe it will be a NovemberFest!). 75% Pils 25% Munich Magnum at the top and a touch of Sterling at the end. Diamond. I strongly considered using BRY-97 for the sulfur reasons that BB describes (hey, it's my beer), but decided to stick with a lager yeast. Is that Munich 1 or 2? On the sulphury thing... there is supposed to be some. The guys on the LO forum described it as a slight "matchstick" aroma you would get. I believe you can effectively reduce or remove that character by using the quick lager method. Allow the beer to begin fermentation around 50° or so and let it go until it's at least halfway through the process. I typically wait about 4 days. Then move it to a warmer spot and let it go at that temp. Any off-flavors that would result from a warmer temp only develop during the early part of the fermentation. With some amount of active fermentation occurring at a higher temp, you can scrub out unwanted character which includes sulfur but also diacetyl. I have concluded that all these yeasts have their place. The ales I made this spring with S-04 were fantastic. The beers I made with 940 were also excellent. Now I have this Omega German Lager 1 running and assume it will make great beers too. Cheers Beerheads. That is Munich I (10L) from a PA Craft Maltster and that grain bill puts the SRM somewhere between 6-7. You've probably made more lagers in the last 3 months than I have ever made, so thanks for the fermentation tips. With Diamond, I'm hoping for "clean", high attenuation and a nice, clear glass. I hope not to get any sulfur, which very well might be "authentic", but I wouldn't much care for. Definitely not in a Festbier. I've used Diamond once and didn't get Sulfur. Maybe I was lucky.
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Post by Ken on Aug 16, 2022 14:35:10 GMT -6
I feel like 65/35 pilsner/vienna will be very pale and you won't get that classic Festbier character that comes from the Munich 2. The RedX could help with that but I wonder about 35% RedX. I know it's quite assertive, deep and malty. My next brew session will be a festbier... 65/35 Pils/Munich 2 and 27 IBUs of Spalt Select and this Omega German Lager 1 yeast which is supposed to be WLP830 German Lager. A Fest bier is supposed to be very light, though, right? Often described as a strong helles. It's a good point because there is "Oktoberfest Lager" which I feel has a smidge more color to it and then there is the beer that is served at the fest which does indeed appear to be a higher-ABV helles, export helles, etc. When I make my Oktoberfest or Festbier I'm referring to the one with some color. Then you have versions like Sam Adams and some others who call it an Oktoberfest and they look and drink more like a Vienna Lager... much darker.
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Post by Ken on Aug 16, 2022 14:37:06 GMT -6
Is that Munich 1 or 2? On the sulphury thing... there is supposed to be some. The guys on the LO forum described it as a slight "matchstick" aroma you would get. I believe you can effectively reduce or remove that character by using the quick lager method. Allow the beer to begin fermentation around 50° or so and let it go until it's at least halfway through the process. I typically wait about 4 days. Then move it to a warmer spot and let it go at that temp. Any off-flavors that would result from a warmer temp only develop during the early part of the fermentation. With some amount of active fermentation occurring at a higher temp, you can scrub out unwanted character which includes sulfur but also diacetyl. I have concluded that all these yeasts have their place. The ales I made this spring with S-04 were fantastic. The beers I made with 940 were also excellent. Now I have this Omega German Lager 1 running and assume it will make great beers too. Cheers Beerheads. That is Munich I (10L) from a PA Craft Maltster and that grain bill puts the SRM somewhere between 6-7. You've probably made more lagers in the last 3 months than I have ever made, so thanks for the fermentation tips. With Diamond, I'm hoping for "clean", high attenuation and a nice, clear glass. I hope not to get any sulfur, which very well might be "authentic", but I wouldn't much care for. Definitely not in a Festbier. I've used Diamond once and didn't get Sulfur. Maybe I was lucky. Interesting. I thought Munich 1 usually clocked in around 6-8L and Munich 2 clocked in around 8-11L so yours sounds like the one I would use for a Festbier... my Best Malz order describes it as 10L and Munich "Dark". It's got that sort of spicy, bready thing going. I like it in a beer like this.
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Post by Megary on Aug 16, 2022 16:02:34 GMT -6
That is Munich I (10L) from a PA Craft Maltster and that grain bill puts the SRM somewhere between 6-7. You've probably made more lagers in the last 3 months than I have ever made, so thanks for the fermentation tips. With Diamond, I'm hoping for "clean", high attenuation and a nice, clear glass. I hope not to get any sulfur, which very well might be "authentic", but I wouldn't much care for. Definitely not in a Festbier. I've used Diamond once and didn't get Sulfur. Maybe I was lucky. Interesting. I thought Munich 1 usually clocked in around 6-8L and Munich 2 clocked in around 8-11L so yours sounds like the one I would use for a Festbier... my Best Malz order describes it as 10L and Munich "Dark". It's got that sort of spicy, bready thing going. I like it in a beer like this. I believe you’re right about 1 vs 2. I use mostly Deer Creek Malts (PA) and their standard Munich is 10L, their dark Munich is 20L. Their dark Munich is really nice, like a soft pretzel, but just too dark for this style IMO. So I think we’re on the same page as far as Festbier is considered. However, the more I consider it, the more I’m thinking their dark Munich might make an awesome beer, if not necessarily a Festbier.
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Post by brewbama on Aug 16, 2022 17:55:36 GMT -6
… The guys on the LO forum described it as a slight "matchstick" aroma you would get. … That’s the aroma/taste I don’t like.
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Post by Ken on Aug 16, 2022 21:18:56 GMT -6
Interesting. I thought Munich 1 usually clocked in around 6-8L and Munich 2 clocked in around 8-11L so yours sounds like the one I would use for a Festbier... my Best Malz order describes it as 10L and Munich "Dark". It's got that sort of spicy, bready thing going. I like it in a beer like this. I believe you’re right about 1 vs 2. I use mostly Deer Creek Malts (PA) and their standard Munich is 10L, their dark Munich is 20L. Their dark Munich is really nice, like a soft pretzel, but just too dark for this style IMO. So I think we’re on the same page as far as Festbier is considered. However, the more I consider it, the more I’m thinking their dark Munich might make an awesome beer, if not necessarily a Festbier. That's another strange thing... some Canadian maltsters created some Munich that was 20L but it's a little unusual, I think. I seem to remember Denny talking about this. Munich 2 is technically a base malt and should be able to make up 100% of the grist but I don't think I would do that with a 20L Munich. All that said, Avangard's Dark Munich is also 20L. If I use it I just take it into account when making the beer. I feel like the Deer Creek Munich 10L would be really nice in a Festbier and 75/25 would be really nice. I'm doing 65/35 but it's all good. Cheers.
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Post by tommymorris on Aug 17, 2022 6:41:19 GMT -6
The Red X malt is only 15L and supposedly tastes like a cross between Munich and Vienna. That’s why I wanted to try it in a Festbier. At 70/30 the predicted color is a little dark at 7.3 SRM. But, I am currently leaning that direction. I still have a few days to decide…
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