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Post by brewbama on Aug 17, 2022 6:53:51 GMT -6
The Red X malt is only 15L and supposedly tastes like a cross between Munich and Vienna. That’s why I wanted to try it in a Festbier. At 70/30 the predicted color is a little dark at 7.3 SRM. But, I am currently leaning that direction. I still have a few days to decide… Go for it. One reason to brew small batches is to experiment. If it fails you don’t have tons invested. I recall Ynotbrusum say; “I have a club member friend who wins regularly with his Vienna Lager (several ramp ups by commercial breweries, also)”. It uses Red X which is very unorthodox for the classic style. It could be a huge success.
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Post by Ken on Aug 17, 2022 7:22:00 GMT -6
The Red X malt is only 15L and supposedly tastes like a cross between Munich and Vienna. That’s why I wanted to try it in a Festbier. At 70/30 the predicted color is a little dark at 7.3 SRM. But, I am currently leaning that direction. I still have a few days to decide… I agree with BB... go for it. I didn't know RedX was supposed to be a cross between Munich 2 and Vienna. At 15L, that seems a little unusual because Vienna and Munich 2 are both lighter in color than that. If you thought there might be too much RedX at 30% you could do 75/25 or even 80/20. The other thing that comes to mind is that I thought RedX was uber malty and sort of "caramelly". It's been a long time since I used it so maybe not. I probably attempted to make a festbier decades ago that featured something "crystal" like CaraMunich or maybe even RedX but later I realized that the Germans don't usually brew that way. Munich 2 has color and depth but the overall flavor of it is crisper and drier than a crystal malt. In the end, Germans aren't making this beer... tommymorris is. Brew what you view and let us know how it comes out. I think I'm making mine late Friday afternoon into the evening and a brew session sounds really good right now. Cheers Beerheads.
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Post by Megary on Aug 17, 2022 7:49:45 GMT -6
Agree with the above, get on it Tommy!
My idea of a Festbier is lighter-ish in color, malty aroma and presence, not sweet, noble hops, sessionable. The trick is "malty" and not "sweet" as I see it. Whatever gets you there is a win in my book.
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Post by Ken on Aug 17, 2022 8:19:25 GMT -6
Agree with the above, get on it Tommy! My idea of a Festbier is lighter-ish in color, malty aroma and presence, not sweet, noble hops, sessionable. The trick is "malty" and not "sweet" as I see it. Whatever gets you there is a win in my book. This is one of the all-time hurdles in my book. That bolded part applies to helles for me too but certainy to Festbier as well. That's one reason I was favoring the Munich 2 because you get malt without sweet. I can't remember if RedX is sweet or not but if it falls squarely into the "crystal" category I would think it could be sweet... because of that I would reduce the percentage a bit.
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Festbier
Aug 17, 2022 19:54:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 17, 2022 19:54:03 GMT -6
Interesting. I thought Munich 1 usually clocked in around 6-8L and Munich 2 clocked in around 8-11L so yours sounds like the one I would use for a Festbier... my Best Malz order describes it as 10L and Munich "Dark". It's got that sort of spicy, bready thing going. I like it in a beer like this. I believe you’re right about 1 vs 2. I use mostly Deer Creek Malts (PA) and their standard Munich is 10L, their dark Munich is 20L. Their dark Munich is really nice, like a soft pretzel, but just too dark for this style IMO. So I think we’re on the same page as far as Festbier is considered. However, the more I consider it, the more I’m thinking their dark Munich might make an awesome beer, if not necessarily a Festbier. How is the Deer Creek malt overall? I see it whenever I'm at Keystone Brewing, but always hesitate to buy some.
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Post by Megary on Aug 18, 2022 6:50:03 GMT -6
I like them a lot and I pretty much only use their malts, save for those "unique" items like Maris Otter, or Carafa or something like that. I've never done side-by-side experiments against other malts, so there's that, but when I switched to DC, I honestly felt my beer jumped a level. Anecdotal, sure. Still, I'm happy with the results. And I buy their malts directly from Deer Creek and not through Keystone Homebrew even though, because of shipping, it's more expensive that way. The thought being that I'm getting the freshest malt possible. Not sure that's really true, but I tell myself it is. I stock their: Keystone Pale (2Row) Colonial Pils Dutch (Munich) Double Dutch (Dark Munich) Sweet Liberty (Vienna) Pale Wheat Twilight Wheat Pale Spelt Also, though they don't show it on their website (?): C60 C120 Roasted Barley They also have a ton of other malts that I haven't tried yet. Pale Oat, Pale Corn, Pale Rye, Pale Buckwheat, Pale Sorghum, etc. And most of these can be ordered toasted or "Munich" style. Lots to discover. They have great, friendly customer service and it's probably a good idea to contact them if you want to place an order. If you are in the Philly area, you can pick up direct or at many local farmer's markets and save yourself the shipping. They also make some nice beer (in collaboration with some craft breweries) and a lot of food products (granola, bread mixes, waffle mix...). Highly recommended.
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Post by denny on Aug 18, 2022 12:26:08 GMT -6
A Fest bier is supposed to be very light, though, right? Often described as a strong helles. It's a good point because there is "Oktoberfest Lager" which I feel has a smidge more color to it and then there is the beer that is served at the fest which does indeed appear to be a higher-ABV helles, export helles, etc. When I make my Oktoberfest or Festbier I'm referring to the one with some color. Then you have versions like Sam Adams and some others who call it an Oktoberfest and they look and drink more like a Vienna Lager... much darker. AFAIK, the darker one is the "official" traditional Oktoberfest. The light one is a festbier, a more modern development.
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Post by brewbama on Aug 18, 2022 17:06:33 GMT -6
The beers served at the Munich event is a light colored beer.
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Post by tommymorris on Aug 18, 2022 21:14:18 GMT -6
The Red X malt is only 15L and supposedly tastes like a cross between Munich and Vienna. That’s why I wanted to try it in a Festbier. At 70/30 the predicted color is a little dark at 7.3 SRM. But, I am currently leaning that direction. I still have a few days to decide… I agree with BB... go for it. I didn't know RedX was supposed to be a cross between Munich 2 and Vienna. At 15L, that seems a little unusual because Vienna and Munich 2 are both lighter in color than that. If you thought there might be too much RedX at 30% you could do 75/25 or even 80/20. The other thing that comes to mind is that I thought RedX was uber malty and sort of "caramelly". It's been a long time since I used it so maybe not. I probably attempted to make a festbier decades ago that featured something "crystal" like CaraMunich or maybe even RedX but later I realized that the Germans don't usually brew that way. Munich 2 has color and depth but the overall flavor of it is crisper and drier than a crystal malt. In the end, Germans aren't making this beer... tommymorris is. Brew what you view and let us know how it comes out. I think I'm making mine late Friday afternoon into the evening and a brew session sounds really good right now. Cheers Beerheads. I don’t think Red X is actually a cross between Vienna and Munich. I have just read posts on the AHA Forum where people say it tastes like that. I have also read elsewhere on the web conjecture that Red X is a blend of Munich, Vienna, and Crystal. Nobody but BEST Malz knows for sure what it is. I will probably drop the percentage of Red X. But I want to try it. If it doesn’t taste like a Festbier I will just call it something else.
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Post by Ken on Aug 19, 2022 6:27:56 GMT -6
The beers served at the Munich event is a light colored beer. I think this started some confusion especially when people say "Oktoberfest" or "Festbier" or even "Tent Beer". I think it's safe to say that there was an Oktoberfest Lager brewed for the fest that had some color. But with helles being the everyday beer of Munich, an "Export Helles" (if that doesn't confuse things more) was made for the fest at some point. I've never been to the fest so I don't know when that started. I like a helles and I'm sure I would love the beer served at the fest and I also like the "Oktoberfest Lager" that we typically associate with the fest (the one with some color). There is room for all these concoctions.
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Post by tommymorris on Aug 19, 2022 10:27:23 GMT -6
The beers served at the Munich event is a light colored beer. I think this started some confusion especially when people say "Oktoberfest" or "Festbier" or even "Tent Beer". I think it's safe to say that there was an Oktoberfest Lager brewed for the fest that had some color. But with helles being the everyday beer of Munich, an "Export Helles" (if that doesn't confuse things more) was made for the fest at some point. I've never been to the fest so I don't know when that started. I like a helles and I'm sure I would love the beer served at the fest and I also like the "Oktoberfest Lager" that we typically associate with the fest (the one with some color). There is room for all these concoctions. Definitely. I am brewing this weekend. I will call mine a Festbier it if is suitably light colored and tastes like a big helles. If it is more colorful and has any sweetness I will call it an Oktoberfest. Either way this is my fall lager beer and a nod to Oktoberfest.
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Post by Ken on Aug 19, 2022 10:34:15 GMT -6
I think this started some confusion especially when people say "Oktoberfest" or "Festbier" or even "Tent Beer". I think it's safe to say that there was an Oktoberfest Lager brewed for the fest that had some color. But with helles being the everyday beer of Munich, an "Export Helles" (if that doesn't confuse things more) was made for the fest at some point. I've never been to the fest so I don't know when that started. I like a helles and I'm sure I would love the beer served at the fest and I also like the "Oktoberfest Lager" that we typically associate with the fest (the one with some color). There is room for all these concoctions. Definitely. I am brewing this weekend. I will call mine a Festbier it if is suitably light colored and tastes like a big helles. If it is more colorful and has any sweetness I will call it an Oktoberfest. Either way this is my fall lager beer and a nod to Oktoberfest. I plan to make mine this weekend too. My weekend has clouded over with some chores but I may have time to brew on Sunday. Enjoy the brewday.
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Post by brewbama on Aug 19, 2022 14:13:54 GMT -6
Definitely. I am brewing this weekend. I will call mine a Festbier it if is suitably light colored and tastes like a big helles. If it is more colorful and has any sweetness I will call it an Oktoberfest. Either way this is my fall lager beer and a nod to Oktoberfest. That’s the spirit! (Pssst: my ‘big Helles’ (Helles Export) has Pils/Munich/and *gasp* Wheat malt in it. 😳 I call it “Helles Special”. Add a lb of Vienna and *poof* Festbier. Don’t tell anyone)
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Post by Ken on Aug 21, 2022 6:37:30 GMT -6
Preparing for brewday now. Oktoberfest Lager. Water is filtered, grains and hops are weighed out. 65% Briess Select Pilsner, 35% Avangard Munich 2. 26 IBUs of Edelweiss from the start of the boil. Omega German Lager 1. For those about to brew... we salute you.
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Post by tommymorris on Aug 21, 2022 10:15:24 GMT -6
I’m mashing right now. I’m calling mine Weevil Fest. It’s been a hot summer!
Mine is 70:30 Best Pils:Best Red X with 28 IBU of Spalt. I have a 5 minute and 0 minute addition to give some hop flavor. I’m using Diamond yeast.
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