BIAB and Deoxygenated Strike Water

What if I try to attack this from a different angle and go on a loosely-related tangent? I do the deox thing, heat my water and then transfer it using hi-temp tubing from kettle to MT with my grains already in there. I "underlet" the water so the transfer is slow and quiet. But I still have to stir it. I do that carefully and slowly but thoroughly. All of the areas in my process that appear to negate the benefit of the deoxing are supposed to be covered by insurance that is provided by the trifecta mix of sodium metabisulfite, ascorbic acid and BTB. I did this for a good two years. When I recirc and run off from MT to kettle I assume I am also negating the benefits of deoxing. Supposedly if you still have any readily usable trifecta in the wort, the result will be a beer that smells and tastes like farts. Ask me how I know. I kept lowering the dosage until I was around 12ppm and I *STILL* had a bit of that character. So I stopped doing it. At some point you have to find a middle ground between what you consider to be your best version of beer and your desire to possibly make better beer. I still use a lot of the LO steps and I actually like them and find some of them helpful. But I'm not sure how (or if) they benefit my beer. I do know that my current iteration of "brewday" is producing some very good beer here but would a very serious LO brewer agree? Not sure and actually don't care.

Well...maybe BIAB isn't the ideal brewing method to go full on LO, but I think I can take a nibble at it here and there, just to see.  Deoxing the strike water seems simple enough, but incorporating the grains, not so much.  I've read some BIABers mill into the bag and slowwwwly lower the bag into the kettle.  Kind of a pseudo underlet I suppose.  I can see that working, maybe.  Another trick would be removing the bag and draining/squeezing to hit volume.

I don't know.  What do I have to lose other than a few minutes?  I'm thinking if I do try it, I should try it on as lager-ish a beer as I'm likely to make.  Maybe a Cream Ale?  A blank canvas.

Interesting that you stopped spunding. It seems to be all the rage.

I'm intrigued by the idea of transferring my beer to a keg while there is still some yeast activity going on, so (in theory) any O2 uptake in the transfer may be somewhat dealt with by the still active yeast. But not necessarily "spunding", which I understand to be a controlled, natural carbonating of the beer with the CO2 produced at the end of fermentation. That seems a bit too hands on for me...something that might have to be baby-sat.

All in good time, I'm in no hurry.

Thanks for that. Very helpful and honest (and funny).

Getting discouraged (or bored) with brewing is definitely something I'm trying to avoid. I look forward to brew day and intend to keep it that way for years to come. My process is so ridiculously simple and enjoyable to me right now and - for the most part - I'm enjoying the beer. (Though I've certainly ham-fisted my way through a few recipes for sure.)

So how unreasonable does this sound for a lower O2 transfer:

Rack beer from fermenter to keg towards the very end of fermentation.*
Seal keg with CO2 and set pressure to about 5 psi or so.
Leave CO2 hooked up.
Leave keg at fermentation temp for a few more days and watch the gauge.
Release pressure from keg lid if need be.
Then chill keg and manually adjust pressure from tank as necessary.
Wait a few days and serve.

This is the type of simple transfer that was in my head but typing it out makes me think the science is wrong and it's completely full of holes.

* Because I brew small batches, I don't take gravity readings along the way. So I have no idea other than experience with the yeast and visuals as to when I'm at the end of fermentation: Temp drops, airlock stops, yeast/trub starts to settle.

I'm getting a little confused by this.  Are you suggesting a sort of hybrid spund-force carb thing?  Also, if you have the keg at fermentation temps while force-carbing it may be sort of 'weak' because cold beer absorbs CO2 more readily than warmer beer.  You also remind me that the LO guys suggested that cooler fermentations (lagers) should remain at those cooler temps while spunding takes place.  One issue I have had (especially in colder parts of the year when the temp in the basement is always cool) is diacetyl and the only way to combat that is with warmer temps.  Because of that, spunding threw another obstacle at me.  The LO guys probably had a way to ensure that diacetyl would not form in the first place but that's another thread, probably.  

Yep, I get that.  But that's what I do now.  And I start with well water right out of the tap.  (As an aside, am I supposed to still care about DO *after* the mash and on my way to the boil??)

So the question is, would my I notice a difference in the finished beer if I:

1) De-oxed the water

2) Slowly lowered the full bag of grain at mash-in and stirred with a quiet hand (as opposed to dumping the grain in)

3) Slowly pulled the bag to just a smidge above the wort to keep splashing to a minimum

Again, none of these steps are all that difficult, though they may add a few minutes of time.  And I'm certainly willing to admit that they might not make a perceivable difference...to me.

Thinking out loud, thanks for putting up with me.

You're the most experienced with your own beer so the answer is "you need to try it and see if it makes a difference and try to keep confirmation bias out of the picture as best you can".  I think that some BIABers raise their grain bag out and just leave it slightly in the wort so that it's draining but there is no space between the bag and the wort.  This is not my area but I know some people have built a winch-like setup. 


Also, I feel like this is a good time for a healthy dose of reality.  As beer drinkers we consume beers from any number of sources... our own beer, commercial beer whether it be Modelo or Pabst or Heineken or Blue Moon, craft beer that is made by small breweries and the styles that are made popular by them, beers from oversees like Belgians, Czech Pilsners, German Lagers, etc.  All of these beers are going to have their various characteristics.  I had some Modelo in a clear bottle at the bowling alley last night and it was mildly skunky.  I have had beers at craft breweries that were absolutely horrendous.  I have been to craft beer festivals where maybe 10-20% of the beer I tried was actually GOOD.  Some were passable and some were downright undrinkable.  Then you have beautiful Czech or German beers that seem like they're on an untouchable plateau.  The point is... if you try your own beer and it's satisfying to you then you're doing a lot of things right.  If you try your own beer and it seems to fall flat compared to other commercial beers that you like to consume, you may need to do some additional homework.  There are beers out there of every grade and caliber and even our own taste buds can play with our minds because they're in the mood for something different than what you're drinking and they may not even be performing properly especially if you're sick or on meds.  I often have people over drinking my beer and I get a lot of enthusiastic reactions.  The beer is free and coming out of the wall and these people are not BJCP judges but the point is the same:  The beer is good in their opinion and in my opinion.  If it wasn't then I would either study harder or stop brewing.  The effort we choose to put into our brewing is up to each of us and it's dictated by out taste buds only, IMO.   If I were drinking one of my beers that I thought was good but an LO brewer stuck his DO meter into my beer and declared it oxidized because it had xxx.xx amount of dissolved O2, he could not tell me that I didn't like it.  I would still like it just the same.