|
Post by brewbama on Apr 5, 2022 12:18:04 GMT -6
I am late to the party due to an appointment with a robot and a hole in my gut 😂
A cpl of my thoughts about BIAB and Low O2:
If you deox your water using yeast, that yeast is still in your water even after the deox 20 min. So as long as you mash in before heating to kill the yeast, any additional air introduced during mash in will be consumed by the yeast and other antioxidants. Same for removing the bag — the antioxidants should take care of that. 🤔
If you add the grain to the bag then lower the bag into the Deox water you are by definition underletting. Slowly lower it in and watch the air bubbles forced out of the grain.
I suck at metabisulfate dosing. I too produced fart beer using metabisulfate so I eliminated it from my regimen. I decided I’d rather have non Low O2 beer than fart beer. It might have had zero O2 but it tasted like ass.
However, I use Ascorbic Acid and BtB with great results (no proof bias alert).
I also struggled with spunding at first. I eliminated leak points and seem to be on point now. However, I have found the beer seems to take longer to clear in my non floating dip tube keg. 🤷♂️
As far as when to transfer: this is where the Tilt shines. I cannot trust the FG number it gives me but I have enough data to know when to transfer. There is a very predictable ’S’ curve in the yeasts I’ve been using and when I see the ‘actual’ SG line cross the trend line it’s time to transfer.
I spund to finish fermentation in the keg so the yeast consumes O2 picked up during transfer. Once fermentation is complete based on historical data for the yeasts I have used (X days), I remove the keg from the warm fermentation fridge and place it into the freezer sided of my side-by-side to cold crash under 10 psig CO2 pressure. This way I am carbonating and cold crashing and lagering and conditioning…. all at once.
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Apr 5, 2022 12:33:19 GMT -6
First: Thoughts are with you, BB. I hope you're recovering.
Second: I forgot about the Tilt. I specifically bought one for THIS purpose... determining the time to transfer for the spund. However, my Tilt seemed unreliable. It did not match my hydrometer or the software values. Clearly both of those could've been wrong and the Tilt was right but I was NOT getting a good vibe from the Tilt even though I calibrated it (which is exasperating, btw). I ended up selling it to Gusso. But I know some people benefit from it.
Also, BB described much better my concept of fart beer and how I would much rather have non-LO beer than LO beer that smelled and tasted like farts. Please. No fart beers.
|
|
|
Post by cliffs on Apr 5, 2022 12:35:42 GMT -6
I am late to the party due to an appointment with a robot and a hole in my gut 😂 A cpl of my thoughts about BIAB and Low O2: If you deox your water using yeast, that yeast is still in your water even after the deox 20 min. So any additional air introduced during mash in will be consumed by the yeast and other antioxidants. Same for removing the bag — the antioxidants should take care of that. 🤔 If you add the grain to the bag then lower the bag into the Deox water you are by definition underletting. Slowly lower it in and watch the air bubbles forced out of the grain. I suck at metabisulfate dosing. I too produced fart beer using metabisulfate so I eliminated it from my regimen. I decided I’d rather have non Low O2 beer than fart beer. It might have had zero O2 but it sucked. However, I use Ascorbic Acid and BtB with great results (no proof bias alert). I also struggled with spunding at first. I eliminated leak points and seem to be on point now. However, I have found the beer seems to take longer to clear in my non floating dip tube keg. 🤷♂️ A s far as when to transfer: this is where the Tilt shines. I cannot trust the FG number it gives me but I have enough data to know when to transfer. There is a very predictable ’S’ curve in the yeasts I’ve been using and when I see the ‘actual’ SG line cross the trend line it’s time to transfer.
I spund to finish fermentation in the keg so the yeast consume O2 picked up during transfer. Once fermentation is complete based on historical data for the yeasts I have used (X days), I remove the keg from the warm fermentation fridge and place it into the freezer sided of my side-by-side to cold crash under 10 psig CO2 pressure. This way I am carbonating and cold crashing and lagering and conditioning…. all at once. I used WLP028 edinburgh ale yeast for all my non saison, non lager beers. When you ferment it at 58 degrees it will stall with about 5 gravity points left in fermentation. Thats when I transfer to a keg and let it finish at room temperature. This has made spunding alot easier for me
|
|
|
Post by denny on Apr 5, 2022 12:40:29 GMT -6
FFT possibly? Forced ferment test to see what FG will be so you know when you're 5 points away? Possibly. It's been awhile. There was a small sample of the wort/yeast and it would finish faster than the larger volume and would tell you up front where the beer would finish. A good tool, no doubt. yep, that's it. You take a sample, pitch a massive amount of yeast (I use bread yeast), keep it warm and see where it finishes.
|
|
|
Post by Megary on Apr 5, 2022 12:58:39 GMT -6
I am late to the party due to an appointment with a robot and a hole in my gut 😂 A cpl of my thoughts about BIAB and Low O2: If you deox your water using yeast, that yeast is still in your water even after the deox 20 min. So as long as you mash in before heating to strike temp, any additional air introduced during mash in will be consumed by the yeast and other antioxidants. Same for removing the bag — the antioxidants should take care of that. 🤔
If you add the grain to the bag then lower the bag into the Deox water you are by definition underletting. Slowly lower it in and watch the air bubbles forced out of the grain. I suck at metabisulfate dosing. I too produced fart beer using metabisulfate so I eliminated it from my regimen. I decided I’d rather have non Low O2 beer than fart beer. It might have had zero O2 but it tasted like ass. However, I use Ascorbic Acid and BtB with great results (no proof bias alert). I also struggled with spunding at first. I eliminated leak points and seem to be on point now. However, I have found the beer seems to take longer to clear in my non floating dip tube keg. 🤷♂️ As far as when to transfer: this is where the Tilt shines. I cannot trust the FG number it gives me but I have enough data to know when to transfer. There is a very predictable ’S’ curve in the yeasts I’ve been using and when I see the ‘actual’ SG line cross the trend line it’s time to transfer. I spund to finish fermentation in the keg so the yeast consumes O2 picked up during transfer. Once fermentation is complete based on historical data for the yeasts I have used (X days), I remove the keg from the warm fermentation fridge and place it into the freezer sided of my side-by-side to cold crash under 10 psig CO2 pressure. This way I am carbonating and cold crashing and lagering and conditioning…. all at once. Ooo... I like that. Might be the push I need to give this a shot. Before I even think about metabisulfate, Ascorbic Acid or BtB, at some point I'll try this DO water thing first. Keep the variables to a minimum. Hope everything went well with the surgery!
|
|
|
Post by brewbama on Apr 5, 2022 13:05:29 GMT -6
All is well. …but I feel like I’ve been in a boxing match with an expert in body shots. …and he won.
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Apr 5, 2022 13:38:43 GMT -6
Ooo... I like that. Might be the push I need to give this a shot. Before I even think about metabisulfate, Ascorbic Acid or BtB, at some point I'll try this DO water thing first. Keep the variables to a minimum. Hope everything went well with the surgery! This is always a good idea. Don't change too many things at once. It makes it harder to know what worked or what did not.
|
|
|
Post by brewbama on Apr 5, 2022 14:27:06 GMT -6
Life’s too short and not enough batches left to just change one variable at a time. 😂 One variable in the mash, one in the boil, one in the fermenter, one in the keg, etc… all at once! 😁 … The other thing I didn't care for was that using a gel solution to fine the beer was not considered LO. You can add finings in a Low O2 way. Why not? … Getting back to more familiar processes proved to be very helpful and a number of other brewers who were looking at LO steps ended up doing the same thing: Getting back to their own basics and making beer they enjoy. +1. Low O2 is like climate change. No one denies the climate is changing or O2 is bad in beer. The conflict comes with the question of how bad is the problem and, if anything, what to do about it.
|
|
|
Post by tommymorris on Apr 5, 2022 17:15:32 GMT -6
My secret for clear delicious beer is to pour all of the trub and usually spent hops from the kettle into the fermenter.
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Apr 5, 2022 20:44:35 GMT -6
My secret for clear delicious beer is to pour all of the trub and usually spent hops from the kettle into the fermenter. I believe there was an exbeeriment done on that and there was no difference between the "clean" batch and the trubed-up batch. My guess is that there are various pieces to the clarity puzzle and that if the stars align with your process, ingredients, water, etc. then you can get clear beer when there is trub present in the fermenter. pH is a factor as well and then you have the floccing factor of your yeast.
|
|
|
Post by tommymorris on Apr 6, 2022 5:58:01 GMT -6
My secret for clear delicious beer is to pour all of the trub and usually spent hops from the kettle into the fermenter. I believe there was an exbeeriment done on that and there was no difference between the "clean" batch and the trubed-up batch. My guess is that there are various pieces to the clarity puzzle and that if the stars align with your process, ingredients, water, etc. then you can get clear beer when there is trub present in the fermenter. pH is a factor as well and then you have the floccing factor of your yeast. I am really just joking around. I do pour everything in the fermenter. I personally believe my biggest impediment to good beer is recipe design. When I do that right and have good ingredients my beer is great. I compare my beer to craft beers I buy and I generally don’t think I have process problems. Some craft beer is better than mine and some worse.
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Apr 6, 2022 7:49:45 GMT -6
I believe there was an exbeeriment done on that and there was no difference between the "clean" batch and the trubed-up batch. My guess is that there are various pieces to the clarity puzzle and that if the stars align with your process, ingredients, water, etc. then you can get clear beer when there is trub present in the fermenter. pH is a factor as well and then you have the floccing factor of your yeast. I am really just joking around. I do pour everything in the fermenter. I personally believe my biggest impediment to good beer is recipe design. When I do that right and have good ingredients my beer is great. I compare my beer to craft beers I buy and I generally don’t think I have process problems. Some craft beer is better than mine and some worse. I hear you. The funny thing is that I talk with other brewers who talk about how they can't make a cloudy beer no matter how hard they try... everything comes out clear. And of course I hate them for it. I was comparing notes with one brewer who said he never used any fining agents and our processes and equipment were similar. I found that his water was super soft so I wondered about that. My water has 138ppm of bicarbonate which needs lactic acid to be neutralized. That is going to futz with pH (or at least make it more difficult to adjust) and there could be a chance that I mess that up too so maybe pH is a big key to clarity. Since using BB's straightforward and simplified approach (basically just getting the strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to starting), my beers have been pretty clear. But I've had very stubborn-to-clear batches without any understanding why.
|
|
|
Post by brewbama on Apr 6, 2022 8:22:17 GMT -6
I used to use gelatin to clear beer but now I just use BtB and time. A yeast with good floc characteristics is a huge help.
I use CaCl and gypsum in distilled or RO water based on Gordon Strong’s methods. Credit where credit is due.
He does advocate using phosphoric acid but I’ve found 1 tsp of a weaker Ascorbic Acid doesn’t tank the pH so much when I just want 5.5. Using water with zero buffering capability would sometimes put me well below even when only using 1/8 tsp phosphoric. As an added bonus the AA is an antioxidant.
So BtB, AA, CaCl and/or gypsum = SO much less stress when it comes to my water.
I put the sodium bicarbonate box in the fridge, the sea salt is in the spice cabinet, the epsom salt is in the bathroom for the wife’s tub soak, and the pickling lime will be used to make pickled cucumbers this summer.
I don’t know what to do with the metabisulfate or lactic acid so they’re just collecting dust in the storage closet.
|
|
|
Post by cliffs on Apr 6, 2022 8:22:26 GMT -6
I am really just joking around. I do pour everything in the fermenter. I personally believe my biggest impediment to good beer is recipe design. When I do that right and have good ingredients my beer is great. I compare my beer to craft beers I buy and I generally don’t think I have process problems. Some craft beer is better than mine and some worse. I hear you. The funny thing is that I talk with other brewers who talk about how they can't make a cloudy beer no matter how hard they try... everything comes out clear. And of course I hate them for it. I was comparing notes with one brewer who said he never used any fining agents and our processes and equipment were similar. I found that his water was super soft so I wondered about that. My water has 138ppm of bicarbonate which needs lactic acid to be neutralized. That is going to futz with pH (or at least make it more difficult to adjust) and there could be a chance that I mess that up too so maybe pH is a big key to clarity. Since using BB's straightforward and simplified approach (basically just getting the strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to starting), my beers have been pretty clear. But I've had very stubborn-to-clear batches without any understanding why. why not just use RO water?
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Apr 6, 2022 9:11:03 GMT -6
I hear you. The funny thing is that I talk with other brewers who talk about how they can't make a cloudy beer no matter how hard they try... everything comes out clear. And of course I hate them for it. I was comparing notes with one brewer who said he never used any fining agents and our processes and equipment were similar. I found that his water was super soft so I wondered about that. My water has 138ppm of bicarbonate which needs lactic acid to be neutralized. That is going to futz with pH (or at least make it more difficult to adjust) and there could be a chance that I mess that up too so maybe pH is a big key to clarity. Since using BB's straightforward and simplified approach (basically just getting the strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to starting), my beers have been pretty clear. But I've had very stubborn-to-clear batches without any understanding why. why not just use RO water? Lugging it is a PITA and to be honest... my water is excellent other than the high bicarb number and 138ppm of bicarb is not a death sentence. All the other numbers in my water are low (Ca 34, Cl 21, SO4 27, Mg 12, Na 13, etc) so it's not just manageable, it's actually very good brewing water. 2.75ml of lactic acid in 5 gallons of strike water cuts through the bicarb and lowers the pH to 5.5. Another 1.5ml in about 2.5 gallons of sparge water gets me there too. Totally manageable. Plus (and I mentioned this before), I tried bulk RO water from the grocery store and found that not only were the numbers varying based on the service of the machine but there were still high levels of bicarb and also TDS (I sent a sample to Ward Labs). At least with my own water I know exactly what I'm working with on every single batch. I've made smooth batches of helles, american lager or maybe mexican/caribbean lager that were excellent so the water works for even smooth and subtle styles.
|
|