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Post by tommymorris on Jul 19, 2021 21:30:28 GMT -6
Any tips on an Oktoberfest recipe? In general I prefer a hoppy Festbier. All inputs are welcome.
I have Pils, Vienna, Munich, and Munich 2 in stock. I have Hallertau, Saaz, Magnum, Edelweiss, and Spalter Select also. Finally, I have 34/70, Diamond, and S-23 yeasts.
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 8:06:11 GMT -6
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Post by Seven on Jul 20, 2021 8:15:48 GMT -6
Any tips on an Oktoberfest recipe? In general I prefer a hoppy Festbier. All inputs are welcome. I have Pils, Vienna, Munich, and Munich 2 in stock. I have Hallertau, Saaz, Magnum, Edelweiss, and Spalter Select also. Finally, I have 34/70, Diamond, and S-23 yeasts. Are you going for a Festbier or a Marzen? In the US, the latter seems to be what is most commonly called an O'fest. Edit...woohoo, 500 posts! Do I get the keys to Ken's basement bar now?
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 8:23:23 GMT -6
Any tips on an Oktoberfest recipe? In general I prefer a hoppy Festbier. All inputs are welcome. I have Pils, Vienna, Munich, and Munich 2 in stock. I have Hallertau, Saaz, Magnum, Edelweiss, and Spalter Select also. Finally, I have 34/70, Diamond, and S-23 yeasts. Are you going for a Festbier or a Marzen? In the US, the latter seems to be what is most commonly called an O'fest. Edit...woohoo, 500 posts! Do I get the keys to Ken's basement bar now? You never needed the keys... you just have to ring the doorbell. I meant to say what Seven said... It looks like the beers in the tents at Oktoberfest now are an amped-up helles. Much lighter in color than an "Oktoberfest Lager" or Marzen. When I think "Oktoberfest" or "Festbier" I think of the style that has some color and maltiness to it. It's a little confusing but my post above was targeting the amber-colored version. If a current "tent beer" was the goal, I would think you could make a 6% helles and be close to what seems to be served in the tents. I think Shaggaroo has been to the big party so he may have some info as well. I do know that the big six Munich breweries (Hacker-Pschorr, Spaten, Paulaner, Augustiner, Lowenbrau and Hofbrau) all make a beer specifically for Oktoberfest and it seems to be an "Export Helles" kind of thing.
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Post by brewbama on Jul 20, 2021 9:16:24 GMT -6
I got this from the German Beer Brewing Forum that dissolved when Low O2 hit posted by TechBrau.
Festbier - OG 13.5 Plato 70-90% Pilsner malt at 3.5 EBC 0-30% Vienna malt at 8 EBC 0-30% Munich malt at 15 EBC 0-10% caramel malt at 25 EBC (Carahell) 18-24 IBUs
Marzen - OG 13.5 Plato 30-50% Munich malt at 15 EBC (aka Weyermann Munich I) 30-50% Pilsner malt at 3.5 EBC 0-30% Vienna malt at 8 EBC 0-10% caramalt at 25 to 120 EBC (aka Weyermann Carahell to Caramunich 2, or a blend) 20-26 IBUs
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by tommymorris on Jul 20, 2021 10:48:23 GMT -6
I think I will go with the 50/50 Pils to Munich suggestion. My Munich 2 is Weyermann which is lighter colored than the Avangard.
I prefer Festbier with some color, as opposed to a bigger Helles or a Marzen.
Should the water be soft, medium, hard?
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 11:37:36 GMT -6
I think I will go with the 50/50 Pils to Munich suggestion. My Munich 2 is Weyermann which is lighter colored than the Avangard. I prefer Festbier with some color, as opposed to a bigger Helles or a Marzen. Should the water be soft, medium, hard? I feel like "medium" works. It can be a malty beer with all that Munich 2 in there so you can offset that with hops (maybe push it up to 28-30 IBUs) or you could build the water so it has some sulfate in it. Not TOO much but enough to balance things. I notice that when I make a malty beer like a Dunkel, Vienna, Festbier, bock, etc., I will add a smidge of sulfate. There is probably more chloride than sulfate in the water on the whole but there is a bit more sulfate here to get some crispness. Use your best judgement based on your water, your experience and your tastebuds. I think I did one of these with Spalt and another one with Hallertau and I know that 838 was used once and also Bayern. I have 2124 running now and I should absolutely make a Festbier with this recipe before I retire it. Maybe I'll do a 65/35 Best Malz Pils + Avangard Munich 2 and then 25 IBUs of Edelweiss at the start of the boil + 2124. Yum.
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Post by tommymorris on Jul 20, 2021 14:36:09 GMT -6
I think I will go with the 50/50 Pils to Munich suggestion. My Munich 2 is Weyermann which is lighter colored than the Avangard. I prefer Festbier with some color, as opposed to a bigger Helles or a Marzen. Should the water be soft, medium, hard? I feel like "medium" works. It can be a malty beer with all that Munich 2 in there so you can offset that with hops (maybe push it up to 28-30 IBUs) or you could build the water so it has some sulfate in it. Not TOO much but enough to balance things. I notice that when I make a malty beer like a Dunkel, Vienna, Festbier, bock, etc., I will add a smidge of sulfate. There is probably more chloride than sulfate in the water on the whole but there is a bit more sulfate here to get some crispness. Use your best judgement based on your water, your experience and your tastebuds. I think I did one of these with Spalt and another one with Hallertau and I know that 838 was used once and also Bayern. I have 2124 running now and I should absolutely make a Festbier with this recipe before I retire it. Maybe I'll do a 65/35 Best Malz Pils + Avangard Munich 2 and then 25 IBUs of Edelweiss at the start of the boil + 2124. Yum. Thanks. I was thinking of adding a few extra IBU. I remember a few years ago Sierra Nevada made a Festbier I really enjoyed. It had a healthy bitterness backbone. Medium water is my normal. I’ve got a Helles on deck that has as soft as I can get my water without dilution. It has 33 ppm Sulfate. I’ll taste that before deciding exactly what to do with the Festbier.
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 14:40:32 GMT -6
I feel like "medium" works. It can be a malty beer with all that Munich 2 in there so you can offset that with hops (maybe push it up to 28-30 IBUs) or you could build the water so it has some sulfate in it. Not TOO much but enough to balance things. I notice that when I make a malty beer like a Dunkel, Vienna, Festbier, bock, etc., I will add a smidge of sulfate. There is probably more chloride than sulfate in the water on the whole but there is a bit more sulfate here to get some crispness. Use your best judgement based on your water, your experience and your tastebuds. I think I did one of these with Spalt and another one with Hallertau and I know that 838 was used once and also Bayern. I have 2124 running now and I should absolutely make a Festbier with this recipe before I retire it. Maybe I'll do a 65/35 Best Malz Pils + Avangard Munich 2 and then 25 IBUs of Edelweiss at the start of the boil + 2124. Yum. Thanks. I was thinking of adding a few extra IBU. I remember a few years ago Sierra Nevada made a Festbier I really enjoyed. It had a healthy bitterness backbone. Medium water is my normal. I’ve got a Helles on deck that has as soft as I can get my water without dilution. It has 33 ppm Sulfate. I’ll taste that before deciding exactly what to do with the Festbier. My water has 27ppm of SO4 so it's close. I can make any style without diluting which is nice. I believe my latest Wards analysis showed 21ppm of chloride so I often add more Cl than SO4 but if I were making a Festbier I would probably add .5g of CaSO4 and maybe 2g of CaCl. I'm glad you brought this up because I have been brewing with this 2124 for awhile now and I thought I might retire it soon but a festbier is a good idea and I feel like the timing is right. Cheers.
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Post by tommymorris on Jul 20, 2021 14:48:13 GMT -6
Thanks. I was thinking of adding a few extra IBU. I remember a few years ago Sierra Nevada made a Festbier I really enjoyed. It had a healthy bitterness backbone. Medium water is my normal. I’ve got a Helles on deck that has as soft as I can get my water without dilution. It has 33 ppm Sulfate. I’ll taste that before deciding exactly what to do with the Festbier. My water has 27ppm of SO4 so it's close. I can make any style without diluting which is nice. I believe my latest Wards analysis showed 21ppm of chloride so I often add more Cl than SO4 but if I were making a Festbier I would probably add .5g of CaSO4 and maybe 2g of CaCl. I'm glad you brought this up because I have been brewing with this 2124 for awhile now and I thought I might retire it soon but a festbier is a good idea and I feel like the timing is right. Cheers. September 18 (the start of this years canceled Oktoberfest) is just 8.5 weeks away. I will need to brew in the next 1-2 weeks to have a perfect beer by that date. Of course it’ll still be roasting here then. I really need a Festbier about 30 days later. So, the beer may last a while if the heat doesn’t break.
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Post by shaggaroo on Jul 20, 2021 14:53:38 GMT -6
All this Festbier talk makes me thirsty! And yes Ken, the Festbier at the Oktoberfest is really a higher ABV Helles. And I think I've decided that if I had to choose only one bier for the rest of my days, it would have to be Helles.
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Post by brewbama on Jul 20, 2021 15:15:29 GMT -6
My water has 27ppm of SO4 so it's close. I can make any style without diluting which is nice. I believe my latest Wards analysis showed 21ppm of chloride so I often add more Cl than SO4 but if I were making a Festbier I would probably add .5g of CaSO4 and maybe 2g of CaCl. I'm glad you brought this up because I have been brewing with this 2124 for awhile now and I thought I might retire it soon but a festbier is a good idea and I feel like the timing is right. Cheers. September 18 (the start of this years canceled Oktoberfest) is just 8.5 weeks away. I will need to brew in the next 1-2 weeks to have a perfect beer by that date. Of course it’ll still be roasting here then. I really need a Festbier about 30 days later. So, the beer may last a while if the heat doesn’t break. My birthday! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 15:19:22 GMT -6
All this Festbier talk makes me thirsty! And yes Ken, the Festbier at the Oktoberfest is really a higher ABV Helles. And I think I've decided that if I had to choose only one bier for the rest of my days, it would have to be Helles. I'm a huge helles fan and it's a style I make a lot. I occasionally have a dunkel or other darker beer on tap so then I say that I could be happy for the rest of my days with a pale lager and a dark lager. Thank Jeebus we don't have to make that tough call. I think helles is where I have spent an unbelievable amount of time brewing and designing-wise. At first I tried to make one that was traditional but without decoction and long boils I don't think I can make one that way so I have started to 'cheat' and just try to reach the finish line by taking another path: Caravienne or maybe Copper Malt added to get some depth, etc. I have been noodling with using some amylase enzyme to dry out the finish a little bit as well but I don't want to futz up a perfectly good beer so I'm going to be very careful with that.
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Post by shaggaroo on Jul 20, 2021 15:43:33 GMT -6
Ken, do you use the Helles recipe on your website or have you changed it?
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2021 20:01:36 GMT -6
Ken, do you use the Helles recipe on your website or have you changed it? I have made that recipe and also simplified it and twisted it to get to the finish line using the methods available to us without using a decoction or super long boil. To me a helles has some color and some depth but also finishes dry and the malt and hops come together perfectly without one of them dominating. That's a tall order. So I have used a 90/10 pilsner/caravienne recipe (drinking a glass of it right now, actually), or a 92.5/7.5 pilsner/copper malt recipe and I will keep going until I find what I think is MY version of the helles that I want. I think amylase enzyme might be a key component of getting that drier finish but a higher-attenuating yeast might do that for us too.
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