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Post by Ken on Jun 1, 2020 9:11:58 GMT -6
I know this was mentioned but I wasn't sure where and our search function is brutal. Drez (or Pete), did you mention that the yeast + sugar deox method only takes about 20 minutes to get DO down close to zero? I was doing 2 hours originally and it's one reason I stopped... I had to add the yeast + sugar and then wait. 20 minutes I can do. Also, things seems to change in the LO world so who knows the proper dosing of yeast + sugar? I'm typically mashing with 5 gallons and sparging with three. Thanks guys.
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Post by Seven on Jun 1, 2020 9:39:08 GMT -6
Pretty sure it was this thread below. I was surprised at the 20 minute comment as well since I previously read it took around 2 hours before O2 started climbing again.
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Post by Ken on Jun 1, 2020 9:46:29 GMT -6
Pretty sure it was this thread below. I was surprised at the 20 minute comment as well since I previously read it took around 2 hours before O2 started climbing again.
linkThanks for that. The 2 hours was reasonable but 20 minutes would make it much more palatable. I'll need to look up the dosing in case it changed. With my old-school system and a lack of refined instruments (in terms of LO) I had to look for specific improvements in the beer with the tools I have: My senses. Did the beer smell and taste different, look different, etc? One thing I noticed was that my beers were more pale. It was very visible and it was one verification that there was a change in my beers due to the LO steps. Some of my more recent pale beers are not quite as pale since I stopped doing this. It's not necessarily a reason to go back to it but it suggests that my beers are more oxidized now or at least they oxidize quicker. If I can prevent that with 20 minutes and 50¢ worth of yeast & sugar then I will. |
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Post by Seven on Jun 1, 2020 10:08:02 GMT -6
I've pretty much stopped using the yeast/sugar combo too but I've never brewed the same recipe twice so it's hard to measure against a reference. I also occasionally start my brew day with water as hot as my tankless heater will produce as a shortcut...that's 140F at the tank so probably 125+ in the pot, not very hospitable to yeast I imagine.
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Post by Ken on Jun 1, 2020 10:17:29 GMT -6
I've pretty much stopped using the yeast/sugar combo too but I've never brewed the same recipe twice so it's hard to measure against a reference. I also occasionally start my brew day with water as hot as my tankless heater will produce as a shortcut...that's 140F at the tank so probably 125+ in the pot, not very hospitable to yeast I imagine. Yeah, I am sending yeast + sugar to room temp water. It can't be so hot that it would kill the yeast nor too cool that it couldn't do its thing. What I'm trying to do is get all of the pieces that I want in place to make [what I consider to be] my perfect beer. The water deox may or may not be a part of that but the experimentation continues. |
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Post by Ken on Jun 8, 2020 15:26:33 GMT -6
My wife told me that dry yeast was getting hard to find during The Great Isolation. She went to the store over the weekend and whiffed on the yeast. I went to the store today and was able to find this:  Can I assume that we really don't care that much about the yeast itself? We need active yeast that will metabolize sugar and scavenge O2... right? |
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Post by shaggaroo on Jun 8, 2020 15:31:38 GMT -6
Can I assume that we really don't care that much about the yeast itself? We need active yeast that will metabolize sugar and scavenge O2... right? sounds reasonable to me |
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Post by Seven on Jun 9, 2020 6:18:57 GMT -6
I've had a brick of bread yeast in the freezer for years, as well as parts of another opened (i.e. not vacuum sealed) brick. It keeps very well although viability will drop over time. You probably don't need to worry about that. Just be cognizant that the frozen yeast will condensate if left out for too long after being frozen, so I normally just fill a little jar with the frozen yeast and keep it in the fridge.
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Post by Ken on Jun 9, 2020 7:40:00 GMT -6
I've had a brick of bread yeast in the freezer for years, as well as parts of another opened (i.e. not vacuum sealed) brick. It keeps very well although viability will drop over time. You probably don't need to worry about that. Just be cognizant that the frozen yeast will condensate if left out for too long after being frozen, so I normally just fill a little jar with the frozen yeast and keep it in the fridge. The stuff I have been using is Red Start Active Dry Yeast. It's in a jar and I do not refrigerate it. I should read the label... is it supposed to be refrigerated after opening? I was going to look around for a suitable container with tight-fitting lid for this stuff once I open it. |
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Post by Seven on Jun 9, 2020 8:53:16 GMT -6
I doubt most people refrigerate yeast but the jar I have says to refrigerate and use within 6 months for best results. The yeast I'm currently using has a September 2019 best by date and I probably bought it quite a bit before then.
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Post by Ken on Jun 9, 2020 9:18:25 GMT -6
I just looked at this package I bought yesterday... "no refrigeration necessary". Nice. I'm going to eventually open it and then just store it in a large Ziploc-type bag and store it in the cool, dry, dark basement where I keep all the other evidence brewing stuff.  |
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Post by pkrone on Jun 9, 2020 12:01:16 GMT -6
I know this was mentioned but I wasn't sure where and our search function is brutal. Drez (or Pete), did you mention that the yeast + sugar deox method only takes about 20 minutes to get DO down close to zero? I was doing 2 hours originally and it's one reason I stopped... I had to add the yeast + sugar and then wait. 20 minutes I can do. Also, things seems to change in the LO world so who knows the proper dosing of yeast + sugar? I'm typically mashing with 5 gallons and sparging with three. Thanks guys. The data I saw said 20 min at 110 F to zero PPM. A little longer at lower temp, but the overall time was much shorter than initially believed. The other aspect is the lack of oxygen uptake of the water over time. So you could start the de-ox before bed and still have de-oxygenated water the next morning for brewing. |
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Post by Ken on Jun 9, 2020 12:05:00 GMT -6
I know this was mentioned but I wasn't sure where and our search function is brutal. Drez (or Pete), did you mention that the yeast + sugar deox method only takes about 20 minutes to get DO down close to zero? I was doing 2 hours originally and it's one reason I stopped... I had to add the yeast + sugar and then wait. 20 minutes I can do. Also, things seems to change in the LO world so who knows the proper dosing of yeast + sugar? I'm typically mashing with 5 gallons and sparging with three. Thanks guys. The data I saw said 20 min at 110 F to zero PPM. A little longer at lower temp, but the overall time was much shorter than initially believed. The other aspect is the lack of oxygen uptake of the water over time. So you could start the de-ox before bed and still have de-oxygenated water the next morning for brewing. Thanks Pete. That timeline changed for sure. It used to be "two hours" to zero ppm and I remember asking [somewhere] if I could deox the night before and someone mentioned that O2 would probably creep in by the time the water was used for brewing. I'm glad the process became easier to carry out. Cheers. |
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Post by jkor on Jun 23, 2020 6:49:51 GMT -6
Has this been shown to reduce downstream DO? It seems odd to deoxygenate the water then mix it with grain that is completely full of air.
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Post by Ken on Jun 23, 2020 8:06:35 GMT -6
Has this been shown to reduce downstream DO? It seems odd to deoxygenate the water then mix it with grain that is completely full of air. You want to do everything you can to reduce O2 at all points. The 'trifecta mix' is there to act as insurance for any steps in the process that might be weak. Start with water that is close to ZERO ppm of O2. Mix with grain and the trifecta mix should help to scavenge O2 at that point and any point in the process. One interesting thing is that any leftover active component of the trifecta mix (SMB being the main culprit, I believe) will give the resulting beer a strong sulfur-like character (fart beer!). I am using a very, very low dosage of the trifecta mix and I am also trying to be as careful as possible when it comes to O2 pickup and I still (rarely but occasionally) get a beer with a stronger sulfur character than it should have. Also, one way the LO brewers address the O2 in the grain is to condition the grain first (spritz it with water) and that way when it runs through the mill there is less breakage, etc. I no longer do that but I did. |
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