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Post by Ken on May 28, 2020 15:55:16 GMT -6
Oh yeah, I should really find an 'exchange' place. I also have a welding shop (third choice overall) but they refill.
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Post by jkor on May 28, 2020 18:21:26 GMT -6
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Post by jimdkc on May 29, 2020 0:55:17 GMT -6
I had never heard it called "burst" carbonation. I've always heard "force" carbonation.
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Post by poptop on May 29, 2020 5:49:47 GMT -6
I'm in the 25-30psi x 2-3 days camp. Usually too impatient for the set it and forget it.
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Post by jkor on May 29, 2020 6:55:46 GMT -6
I've been wanting to put some real science behind the carbonation problem for a long time. I feel like it's an underappreciated area of the brew process.
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Post by Ken on May 29, 2020 8:04:14 GMT -6
I've been wanting to put some real science behind the carbonation problem for a long time. I feel like it's an underappreciated area of the brew process. I'm sure the carb is impacted by the method but it's probably a small impact. Head formation and stability is impacted by mash schedule and grist composition too and if you really want to see something out of this world... try spunding. I know we covered this already but sometime when you have a beer fermenting and you want to try an experiment, run the beer off from fermenter to keg when there is anywhere from .002 to .005 gravity points left. You can use a spunding valve but some of the guys on the LO forum told me that they just transfer it and leave the keg sealed up. Allow it to finish (it could be at lager temps, ale temps or room temp IIRC) and when you know it's done, chill it and sample it. It's tough to get the carb level consistent this way but when you see the head... the angels will sing. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by jkor on May 29, 2020 8:12:09 GMT -6
Magic CO2!!! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by Ken on May 29, 2020 8:44:39 GMT -6
It's the one area I wish I could master because there are (at least) two benefits: First, the spund will naturally carb your beer so you're not using your bottled CO2 and 2) the bottled CO2 contains some amount of O2 which you are now introducing to your beer. I am publicly committing (right here, right now) to attempting it again. I'm going to get to somewhere between .003 and .005, send the beer to the keg and let it go. I will leave it that way until I feel like everything should be done and then I'll chill it and possibly gel it. The spunding valve that I made was wonky and I felt like it stuck and didn't do what it was supposed to do. I bounced that around with the LO guys and some had suggestions on fixing it while others just said to run the beer into the keg and leave it closed while natural carb formed. Can do.
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Post by jkor on May 29, 2020 8:47:03 GMT -6
Post your valve!
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Post by jkor on May 29, 2020 8:58:40 GMT -6
My local weld gas place WILL exchange a tank out of hydrotest if it came from them. Fortunately i did get one of my tanks from them.
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Post by Ken on May 29, 2020 9:11:45 GMT -6
Here's the one I originally built: ![](https://i.postimg.cc/zBtwPHh1/spundingvalve2.jpg) The trick is to connect the valve to the IN side of the keg when it has pressure in it and then adjust the valve to .8 bar. When the pressure is over .8 bar, the valve will release the excess pressure, assuring proper carb level. But my valve would not bleed and pressure would increase. If I adjusted the valve I would get a big PPPPSSSSSHHHH! but it would not do it by itself. Someone mentioned that the valve I chose was questionable so then I replaced it with this... ![](https://i.postimg.cc/TPHqtWgv/spundingvalve3.jpg) The same thing happened. The valve would not automatically bleed. That's when I started to spund without the valve and then I eventually stopped spunding altogether.
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Post by bklmt2000 on May 29, 2020 9:28:53 GMT -6
I guess I do a sort of burst-carbonation; after the keg is filled and sealed, I hook up hi-pressure CO2 (30 psi) and shake the keg for ~20 seconds.
It's nowhere near completely carbed at this point, but the keg then goes into the keg fridge and hooked up to serving pressure (~12 psi) and sit for a few days until tapping.
I've found this works well to get a headstart on getting the keg carbed, but without much risk of overcarbonating.
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Post by jkor on May 29, 2020 9:37:14 GMT -6
The issue with pressure relief valves, even adjustable, is they aren't really meant to control pressure so they are not designed to be accurate. If you set it for 12psi it might not release until 17psi and that doesn't really matter for the applications that they are typically used in. If you want to control pressure within 1 psi a pressure relief valve is not the right tool.
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Post by Ken on May 29, 2020 9:49:55 GMT -6
The issue with pressure relief valves, even adjustable, is they aren't really meant to control pressure so they are not designed to be accurate. If you set it for 12psi it might not release until 17psi and that doesn't really matter for the applications that they are typically used in. If you want to control pressure within 1 psi a pressure relief valve is not the right tool. For part of that time I would also just occasionally check the pressure on the gauge. If it was at my setting I would leave it. If it was creeping higher I would just hit the PRV until the gauge showed that I was at the right pressure and I would just check it a couple times a day. The pressure builds slowly so it's not like you need to watch it constantly. I'm sure I will find a way to do it and get consistent carb. I considered the floating TILT hydro but I think Drez said even that is not a perfect solution for spunding. Honestly, a hydro measurement and .003 to .005 seems to be a possible top-notch plan for me.
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Post by Seven on May 29, 2020 10:17:57 GMT -6
I made a spunding valve from a parts list I found online. Works very well! I ferment in a swamp cooler at room temp and occasionally ferment under pressure too, somewhere between 10 and 20 psi. Jumper from my fermenting keg (10G corny) to my serving keg (in to out posts), spunding value on the serving keg in post and set the pressure. CO2 completely purge the keg then I transfer under pressure when done fermenting. Beer is partially carbed at that point. The one thing I haven't solved is dry hopping since the fermenting keg is under pressure already.
I'll see if I can take a pic is anyone is interested.
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