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Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 25, 2022 6:41:03 GMT -6
I've been racking my brain with this latest development in the brew house.
Until a month ago, my water has been consistent- plug in my mineral additions in Bru'n water, and the pH will be -/+ .10 of predicted numbers.
I swapped out my carbon filter because the TDS was reading 280. Swapped out with a new one, and after flushing, the new one is 230. Huh.
I purchased a new probe for the pH meter- it was 7 years old, and taking forever to calibrate. New one calibrates in no time. Purchased fresh buffer solution at the same time for good measure.
The last couple brews, cream ale and a pilsner- the mash pH was. Riding way too high for my taste. 5.6-5.8 range. The cream ale came out minerally and blocky- I ended up dumping it. The pilsner has been not so bad, but I dunno- I've made better.
Maybe it's late summer, and the water company may of put a bunch of disinfectant into the water supply, but cant quite pinpoint the issue.
My water naturally lends itself well to brown and dark beers with little adjustment- for anything light or hoppy, requires more treatment.
Is my next move getting a ward labs report to see if anything changed?
Anyone else experience this?
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Post by Ken on Aug 25, 2022 7:25:28 GMT -6
I haven't experienced this but I am always concerned about it happening since we would have no idea. Turns out that my Lake Michigan water is kept very consistent by the water district here and many Ward Labs analyses tell me that the numbers just barely move around within a 1-2ppm range. I assume smaller water sources, well water sources, etc. would change with the climate and season. So your TDS went up and your source pH went up? Yeah, that would kill my batches. My water has been so consistent that I don't even use my pH meter anymore. Sending water to Ward Labs is relatively straightforward but also a PITA so it's not like you're going to do that 4 times a year in an attempt to stay on top of it.
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Post by Megary on Aug 25, 2022 7:28:35 GMT -6
I would say a lab report is necessary, otherwise you are just guessing. Or contact the water company, though they might not give you all the brewing info you need.
Good luck. That's pretty annoying.
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 25, 2022 8:03:47 GMT -6
I haven't experienced this but I am always concerned about it happening since we would have no idea. Turns out that my Lake Michigan water is kept very consistent by the water district here and many Ward Labs analyses tell me that the numbers just barely move around within a 1-2ppm range. I assume smaller water sources, well water sources, etc. would change with the climate and season. So your TDS went up and your source pH went up? Yeah, that would kill my batches. My water has been so consistent that I don't even use my pH meter anymore. Sending water to Ward Labs is relatively straightforward but also a PITA so it's not like you're going to do that 4 times a year in an attempt to stay on top of it. that's been the story here- I believe you and I have a similar water profile- my sources are a couple of feeder creeks to the DE River. I always check the pH as a force of habit- 45 minutes into the mash, chilled to about 70 Degrees. |
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 25, 2022 8:07:01 GMT -6
I would say a lab report is necessary, otherwise you are just guessing. Or contact the water company, though they might not give you all the brewing info you need. Good luck. That's pretty annoying. That's my gut feeling. all other variables have been swapped out. contacting the water company would be a fool's errand, as they only give out averages and not all the information is helpful for brewing purposes. |
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 25, 2022 8:10:44 GMT -6
I will also say, as a data point- I started underletting the mash when adding strike water, roughly 2 or 3 months ago. add all the minerals and acid in the HLT, stir well, then pump into the MT. no change in predicted pH. I don't see how that would effect much- and until this issue popped up, it hasn't been.
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Aug 26, 2022 12:51:40 GMT -6
pulled the trigger on a ward labs report- they keep good records! the last time a water report was ordered was back in 2012! the local water has been consistent for that long until recently. I'll post comparisons of the reports side by side when the latest results.
really curious of how and what changed.
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Post by Ken on Aug 26, 2022 14:05:35 GMT -6
pulled the trigger on a ward labs report- they keep good records! the last time a water report was ordered was back in 2012! the local water has been consistent for that long until recently. I'll post comparisons of the reports side by side when the latest results. really curious of how and what changed. If the water composition hasn't changed at all [or much], it would make me twitchy because now you have to start turning rocks over. I have to assume it's water but stranger things have happened. Please keep us posted... it could help others. |
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Sept 14, 2022 15:55:56 GMT -6
The Results are in! its quite the smoking gun on to why my cream ale and pilsners have been chalky, minerally messes. for a easy comparison, I'll deduct the 2022 results from the 2012 results, to get the net change
Na: 24-16= Net Increase of 8 PPM
Ca: 42.9-44.5= Net Loss of 1.6 PPM
Mg: 20-14= Net Increase of 6 PPM
Total Hardness: 191-168= Net Increase of 23 PPM
Sulfate: 9-12= Net Loss of 3 PPM
Chloride: 56-39: Net Increase of 17 PPM
Bicarb: 151-105: Net increase of 46 PPM
Total Alkalinity: 125-88: Net increase of 37 PPM.
I have some adjusting to do in bru'n water for my inputs. looks like I see increased use of Latic acid in my future.
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Post by brewbama on Sept 14, 2022 19:25:56 GMT -6
Ensuring the water consistently and minimum inputs (CaCl and/or gypsum only) has really improved my beers IMO. I currently buy distilled or purified (RO) water. I want to get an RO system so I don’t have to buy water anymore but I am struggling with the waste it produces.
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Sept 14, 2022 19:49:34 GMT -6
Ensuring the water consistently and minimum inputs (CaCl and/or gypsum only) has really improved my beers IMO. I currently buy distilled or purified (RO) water. I want to get an RO system so I don’t have to buy water anymore but I am struggling with the waste it produces. Absolutely. Had a good 10 year run with my water- nothing lasts forever, I suppose. A couple of guys in the brew club have RO filter systems. it's a time suck to produce RO. One guy gardens, so the grey waste water is used for watering plants. The otheruses the waste water to fill his washer for laundry- plans his brewdays with laundry. I dont have the space to install a system like that- and picking up RO is a PITA, I'm sure. |
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Post by Megary on Sept 15, 2022 6:49:48 GMT -6
The Results are in! its quite the smoking gun on to why my cream ale and pilsners have been chalky, minerally messes. for a easy comparison, I'll deduct the 2022 results from the 2012 results, to get the net change Na: 24-16= Net Increase of 8 PPM Ca: 42.9-44.5= Net Loss of 1.6 PPM Mg: 20-14= Net Increase of 6 PPM Total Hardness: 191-168= Net Increase of 23 PPM Sulfate: 9-12= Net Loss of 3 PPM Chloride: 56-39: Net Increase of 17 PPM Bicarb: 151-105: Net increase of 46 PPM Total Alkalinity: 125-88: Net increase of 37 PPM. I have some adjusting to do in bru'n water for my inputs. looks like I see increased use of Latic acid in my future. I think this is a good reminder to brewers everywhere to not take our water for granted. I'm guilty of this for sure, basing all my mineral adjustments on a 3-year-old water report. Now I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but who knows? Time to visit Ward Labs dot com again. I will say that my original water report is very similar to the one you posted above. Yes, very few adjustments for all the Stouts and Porters I brew, but Lactic is necessary for just about everything else. I honestly feel that if I had to use RO, Distilled, Filtration etc., I'd probably close up shop. I don't even bother with the pH meter anymore. This is what makes me happy. |
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Sept 15, 2022 7:38:36 GMT -6
The Results are in! its quite the smoking gun on to why my cream ale and pilsners have been chalky, minerally messes. for a easy comparison, I'll deduct the 2022 results from the 2012 results, to get the net change Na: 24-16= Net Increase of 8 PPM Ca: 42.9-44.5= Net Loss of 1.6 PPM Mg: 20-14= Net Increase of 6 PPM Total Hardness: 191-168= Net Increase of 23 PPM Sulfate: 9-12= Net Loss of 3 PPM Chloride: 56-39: Net Increase of 17 PPM Bicarb: 151-105: Net increase of 46 PPM Total Alkalinity: 125-88: Net increase of 37 PPM. I have some adjusting to do in bru'n water for my inputs. looks like I see increased use of Latic acid in my future. I think this is a good reminder to brewers everywhere to not take our water for granted. I'm guilty of this for sure, basing all my mineral adjustments on a 3-year-old water report. Now I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but who knows? Time to visit Ward Labs dot com again. I will say that my original water report is very similar to the one you posted above. Yes, very few adjustments for all the Stouts and Porters I brew, but Lactic is necessary for just about everything else. I honestly feel that if I had to use RO, Distilled, Filtration etc., I'd probably close up shop. I don't even bother with the pH meter anymore. This is what makes me happy. Using RO takes a ton of guesswork out of it- but either buying a RO system or buying water is something I'd rather NOT do. I still use a pH meter- just to confirm my process; actually, this is what helped me troubleshoot the issue! For what is worth, I've always used Acidulated malt (up to 3% of the malt bill) to drop pH, then supplement with Lactic acid if needed. |
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Post by Ken on Sept 15, 2022 7:39:19 GMT -6
The Results are in! its quite the smoking gun on to why my cream ale and pilsners have been chalky, minerally messes. for a easy comparison, I'll deduct the 2022 results from the 2012 results, to get the net change Na: 24-16= Net Increase of 8 PPM Ca: 42.9-44.5= Net Loss of 1.6 PPM Mg: 20-14= Net Increase of 6 PPM Total Hardness: 191-168= Net Increase of 23 PPM Sulfate: 9-12= Net Loss of 3 PPM Chloride: 56-39: Net Increase of 17 PPM Bicarb: 151-105: Net increase of 46 PPM Total Alkalinity: 125-88: Net increase of 37 PPM. I have some adjusting to do in bru'n water for my inputs. looks like I see increased use of Latic acid in my future. I think this is a good reminder to brewers everywhere to not take our water for granted. I'm guilty of this for sure, basing all my mineral adjustments on a 3-year-old water report. Now I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but who knows? Time to visit Ward Labs dot com again. I will say that my original water report is very similar to the one you posted above. Yes, very few adjustments for all the Stouts and Porters I brew, but Lactic is necessary for just about everything else. I honestly feel that if I had to use RO, Distilled, Filtration etc., I'd probably close up shop. I don't even bother with the pH meter anymore. This is what makes me happy. I agree. We can't see, smell or taste these water ions so part of our process is a leap of faith. I have been lucky that my water has stayed consistent but I'm at the point where I don't measure anything anymore. I used to wring my hands over pH but I don't even check it anymore. So far so good but it's always possible something will go downhill. |
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Sept 16, 2022 9:27:22 GMT -6
With all the backlog of Bru'n water spreadsheets, I decided to give Martin $10 and get the supporters version and start fresh.
Have a group brew planned for a barrel aged lambic at a friends this weekend- making the water profile from RO. After that, think I'm going to make a cream ale (for the 3rd time- made two batches to confirm my concern about the water change) as a benchmark.
Have a pilsner, cream ale and a session hoppy ale on tap- and they are all lifeless, without character, and tannic on the finish. It really seems like I'm in my 2nd or 3rd batch of all grain.
Its frustrating to go thru the trouble of brewing to have the end result be disappointing.
Pay attention to your water, folks.
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