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Post by Ken on May 31, 2022 18:23:52 GMT -6
Ah. Got it. I read the "starter with S-23" and then short-circuited.
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Post by denny on Jun 1, 2022 12:36:04 GMT -6
I pitched a SNS starter of S-23 Saturday at 5:30. Ten hours later it had its first blip on the Tilt. After just less than 48 hours the beer is down to 1013 SG. It was a small beer (1038 OG). But, still, I am surprised at the speed. The temp is steady at 57F. I made the starter from 3 tablespoons of slurry. The starter was about 24 hours old when I pitched it. I was hoping for new cell growth (Mark V. says you need that every few repitches). I am not sure if 3 tablespoons was the right amount of slurry to promote new growth or not. Three tablespoons is about 45ml. This White Labs FAQ (https://www.whitelabs.com/faq) says a PurePitch® Homebrew contains 35-50mL of yeast. The starter tasted and smelled great. An SNS starter of S-23? Am I crazy or are you not supposed to make starters for dry yeast? Yes and yes....😁
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Post by zymot on Jun 28, 2022 20:18:14 GMT -6
This week, I decided to go with a 1/2 batch (2.5 - 3 gallons) of English mild. I think I hit ~ 1.036 OG. Between the low OG and half size, I did not go with a starter. I pitched my vial of WLP002 direct. Lag time was more than 24 hours before a good foaming head of krausen.
With a SNS starter lag times are short, within 12 hours, good strong fermentation and lots of krausen.
I cannot see any reason do anything but a SNS starter. I guess I am more converted than ever.
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Post by Ken on Jun 29, 2022 6:24:28 GMT -6
This week, I decided to go with a 1/2 batch (2.5 - 3 gallons) of English mild. I think I hit ~ 1.036 OG. Between the low OG and half size, I did not go with a starter. I pitched my vial of WLP002 direct. Lag time was more than 24 hours before a good foaming head of krausen. With a SNS starter lag times are short, within 12 hours, good strong fermentation and lots of krausen. I cannot see any reason do anything but a SNS starter. I guess I am more converted than ever. With regard to ales, if I had a Wyeast smack pack and it had swollen hard, I would pitch that directly into 5 gallons of 1.050(ish) wort with no trouble. Relatively quick activity and a great final glass of beer. I would also do that with a dry ale yeast... just sprinkle 11g of the yeast onto the wort and go. Yes, there would be O2 added in both of those cases. But a package of ale yeast from Omega or White Labs where we can't give it a head start in the package, I would treat that similarly to a lager yeast and make a starter with it. I think I pitched a White Labs vial of ale yeast once and got a very slow start. Not sure if most brewers consider the old-school "smack pack" to be gimmicky or not but that step where the yeast can co-mingle with nutrients and get a head start is still very helpful to determine if the yeast is viable. Also: I have now made FIVE batches of lager with this blob of 940 which was started with an SNS starter but I have NOT tried any of those beers yet. They're all cold, kegged and carbed.
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joed
New Member
We are the people our parents warned us about!
Posts: 39
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Post by joed on Jun 29, 2022 11:43:52 GMT -6
So it seems that it's getting hard to find the little red O2 tanks lately. If out of O2, would the oxygen in the SNS starter be sufficient for the batch, or would I have to resort to the old school shaking the carboy workout again?
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Post by denny on Jun 29, 2022 13:12:44 GMT -6
This week, I decided to go with a 1/2 batch (2.5 - 3 gallons) of English mild. I think I hit ~ 1.036 OG. Between the low OG and half size, I did not go with a starter. I pitched my vial of WLP002 direct. Lag time was more than 24 hours before a good foaming head of krausen. With a SNS starter lag times are short, within 12 hours, good strong fermentation and lots of krausen. I cannot see any reason do anything but a SNS starter. I guess I am more converted than ever. When I do a low OG batch, even 5 gal., I pitch direct. I am not a lag time fanatic. 24 hours is fine with me.
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Post by denny on Jun 29, 2022 13:15:39 GMT -6
This week, I decided to go with a 1/2 batch (2.5 - 3 gallons) of English mild. I think I hit ~ 1.036 OG. Between the low OG and half size, I did not go with a starter. I pitched my vial of WLP002 direct. Lag time was more than 24 hours before a good foaming head of krausen. With a SNS starter lag times are short, within 12 hours, good strong fermentation and lots of krausen. I cannot see any reason do anything but a SNS starter. I guess I am more converted than ever. With regard to ales, if I had a Wyeast smack pack and it had swollen hard, I would pitch that directly into 5 gallons of 1.050(ish) wort with no trouble. Relatively quick activity and a great final glass of beer. I would also do that with a dry ale yeast... just sprinkle 11g of the yeast onto the wort and go. Yes, there would be O2 added in both of those cases. But a package of ale yeast from Omega or White Labs where we can't give it a head start in the package, I would treat that similarly to a lager yeast and make a starter with it. I think I pitched a White Labs vial of ale yeast once and got a very slow start. Not sure if most brewers consider the old-school "smack pack" to be gimmicky or not but that step where the yeast can co-mingle with nutrients and get a head start is still very helpful to determine if the yeast is viable. Also: I have now made FIVE batches of lager with this blob of 940 which was started with an SNS starter but I have NOT tried any of those beers yet. They're all cold, kegged and carbed. FWIW, a smack pack does not really give the yeast a "head start". There is so little going on in there that it really doesn't do anything but show viability. Many people are under the mistaken impression that it's a mini starter. I have s[poken to Wyeast about that and they assured me it's not. My limit for direct pitch into 5 gal. is 1.040.
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Post by denny on Jun 29, 2022 13:18:09 GMT -6
So it seems that it's getting hard to find the little red O2 tanks lately. If out of O2, would the oxygen in the SNS starter be sufficient for the batch, or would I have to resort to the old school shaking the carboy workout again? I do nothing to aerate/oxygenate either the starter or the wort. Think about why you oxygenate and it becomes clear. There's an article on our website that explains it, but the site is down ATM.
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Post by Ken on Jun 29, 2022 13:18:15 GMT -6
So it seems that it's getting hard to find the little red O2 tanks lately. If out of O2, would the oxygen in the SNS starter be sufficient for the batch, or would I have to resort to the old school shaking the carboy workout again? I brought this up on the AHA board. I couldn't find them at my local Ace or Home Depot. I tried Menards (a midwest Home Depot-style place) and my local store had 10 in stock so I picked one up. $10! Many brewers are saying that adding O2 is no longer a priority but I make a lot of lagers and I want the yeast to be healthy so I add O2 to the wort on every batch. Some have said that just allowing the wort to "drop" into the fermenter and splash is enough O2 but not sure I buy that. You're about to seal off the fermenter so it's cut off of air so... how much is enough?
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Post by Ken on Jun 29, 2022 13:20:54 GMT -6
With regard to ales, if I had a Wyeast smack pack and it had swollen hard, I would pitch that directly into 5 gallons of 1.050(ish) wort with no trouble. Relatively quick activity and a great final glass of beer. I would also do that with a dry ale yeast... just sprinkle 11g of the yeast onto the wort and go. Yes, there would be O2 added in both of those cases. But a package of ale yeast from Omega or White Labs where we can't give it a head start in the package, I would treat that similarly to a lager yeast and make a starter with it. I think I pitched a White Labs vial of ale yeast once and got a very slow start. Not sure if most brewers consider the old-school "smack pack" to be gimmicky or not but that step where the yeast can co-mingle with nutrients and get a head start is still very helpful to determine if the yeast is viable. Also: I have now made FIVE batches of lager with this blob of 940 which was started with an SNS starter but I have NOT tried any of those beers yet. They're all cold, kegged and carbed. FWIW, a smack pack does not really give the yeast a "head start". There is so little going on in there that it really doesn't do anything but show viability. Many people are under the mistaken impression that it's a mini starter. I have s[poken to Wyeast about that and they assured me it's not. My limit for direct pitch into 5 gal. is 1.040.
You know that saying you have about "reality often astonishes theory"? All I can say is that I tried pitching White Labs vials direct and had long lag times compared to the swollen packs of Wyeast. I'm not saying the beer was better or worse but I remember once pitching an Omega pack (ale yeast) and it took A LONG time to see activity... like 3 days. That I do not like.
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Post by gusso on Jun 29, 2022 18:33:11 GMT -6
So it seems that it's getting hard to find the little red O2 tanks lately. If out of O2, would the oxygen in the SNS starter be sufficient for the batch, or would I have to resort to the old school shaking the carboy workout again? I do nothing to aerate/oxygenate either the starter or the wort. Think about why you oxygenate and it becomes clear. There's an article on our website that explains it, but the site is down ATM. For the past 6-8 months I've done the same. I haven't noticed any difference at all in any aspects of fermentation.
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Post by Ken on Jun 30, 2022 8:07:31 GMT -6
Over on AHA there was a thread about this and there were a good number of people who said they do not worry about O2. Eventually there were contributions from some brewers who said that O2 is still relevant and that lagers or higher gravity beers can benefit from O2 being added. Gusso makes a good amount of high gravity beers so that's a data point. I make quite a few lagers too but I use the O2. When there was a shortage of O2 I panicked for a minute and then thought about just giving up on the O2. But I *did* find a canister and now have a supply again so I plan to keep doing it the way I have been. STUBBORN!
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Post by zymot on Jun 30, 2022 19:39:51 GMT -6
I have no science to back me on this. But isn't a SNS the ultimate in adding oxygen to your wort? When you go witg the 1 quart of wort in a 1 gallon jug, it looks more like adding wort to your oxygen starter.
I have a bottle of medical oxygen I snatched from a company I worked that went out of business. I fill up my gallon jug with lots of oxygen.
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Post by denny on Jul 1, 2022 12:29:48 GMT -6
Over on AHA there was a thread about this and there were a good number of people who said they do not worry about O2. Eventually there were contributions from some brewers who said that O2 is still relevant and that lagers or higher gravity beers can benefit from O2 being added. Gusso makes a good amount of high gravity beers so that's a data point. I make quite a few lagers too but I use the O2. When there was a shortage of O2 I panicked for a minute and then thought about just giving up on the O2. But I *did* find a canister and now have a supply again so I plan to keep doing it the way I have been. STUBBORN! Ken, just try it. That's what I did, and found out something I didn't know before.
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Post by denny on Jul 1, 2022 12:32:19 GMT -6
I have no science to back me on this. But isn't a SNS the ultimate in adding oxygen to your wort? When you go witg the 1 quart of wort in a 1 gallon jug, it looks more like adding wort to your oxygen starter. I have a bottle of medical oxygen I snatched from a company I worked that went out of business. I fill up my gallon jug with lots of oxygen. No, it's pretty much only the starter that it affects. But as I said above,think about why you aerate. The yeast uses the O2 to synthesize sterols to aid in cell reproduction. But when you pitch an active starter, you get so much reproduction so quickly that O2 just isn't needed. www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/saccharomyces/yeast-cultures-are-nuclear-weapons
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