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Post by Ken on Mar 14, 2022 13:52:58 GMT -6
I have some beers on tap right now that I brewed last year. Very good flavor, good clarity, etc. all the way around. These would have been made with me getting the strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to the mash. I put a pilsner on tap a week or two ago and it was mildly cloudy at first as usual... probably yeast being drawn up from the bottom. No worries. But I had a few glasses of it yesterday and some buds were drinking it before that and it appears to have a stubborn haze. It's not hefeweizen-like but it's not very clear. Do you occasionally get this in any of your pale beers and if so have you determined what may have caused it? I am still using gel after chilling the keg and prior to carbing and I am also using this Cellar Science Clearzyme product (that I'm not sure works at all). Most of these beers look GREAT when the wort is going into the fermenter so my only guess is that it's chill haze. I would hope it's not a pH issue since that simplified approach seems to get around that issue. Also in kegs is a helles (made in late 2021) and also a Blonde Ale (made a couple weeks ago) and those have not been tapped yet. The yeast in this case was Omega 113 Mexican Lager. Any thoughts?
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Post by brewbama on Mar 14, 2022 15:20:38 GMT -6
I have had mixed results as far as haze is concerned with lager yeast in general. Even when I’ve given it plenty of time to clear like you have, I get hit or miss results. I get the best results with W34/70 and S-189 though I’ve yet to try S-23. Tommy’s S-23 beers look nice and clear to me.
I’ve quit using clarifying agents other than Brewtan B in the mash and whirlflock in the boil. I also have floating dip tubes in two of my kegs so I try to choose one of them for my lagers which is rare.
I have sworn off liquid yeast because I’ve had one too many DOA even when paying extra for ice packs. I believe the various liquid lager strains were propagated from commercial breweries which use centrifugal force or other filtration methods to clear them. I imagine they will clear given enough time but I am a production brewer. I like to keep the pipeline moving. I just don’t store beers for long periods. I drink them.
Also, I never harvest yeast and reuse it. I know it’s probably a waste of money but brewing about once a month just doesn’t sit well with yeast harvesting IMO. You seem to brew a lot more than I do which makes sense that you’d harvest this week and repitch next week. I probably would, too.
I usually choose a dry yeast with a known reputation for low esters and clarity such as Bry-97 for American styles, S-04 and to a lesser degree Nottingham for English styles, W34/70 and S-189 for lagers, etc.
I am going to try the Cellar Science lager strains in a few beers this year and see how they do. They interest me even though they’re probably just W34/70 or S-23.
I know that’s not much help but I think my clarification steps, yeast type, selection, and use vs yours are apple and oranges.
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Post by brewbama on Mar 15, 2022 6:32:59 GMT -6
I have been thinking about this some more. When I mash in I usually come in under my mash target temp and heat via HERMS to my main mash temp. Though It doesn’t sit there long, this is in a way a protein rest which can reduce chill haze.
You mentioned it’s in your lagers you are seeing this. Can it be the malt you use for your lagers? If you are using Continental malts in these lagers you might want a more deliberate protein rest.
American and British malts really don’t require a protein rest and it can actually be detrimental to head retention. But it’s just something I do that I thought was worth mentioning.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Ken on Mar 15, 2022 7:18:13 GMT -6
I should go back and check my notes on the malt. The funny thing was that I had a beer brewed right around the same time (probably the same brand of pilsner malt... Avangard, I think) and that beer was crystal clear and used the same yeast, Omega 113. It's unbelievably hit or miss.
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Post by Ken on Apr 25, 2022 8:25:09 GMT -6
An update to this thread: BB, I had a very unusual and rare situation here which has to do with me moving. I had a pilsner on tap that was brewed in September that was brewed with Omega 113 and the beer was very clear. The beer was made with a combo of Best Malz and Avangard Pils. Then I made a helles and I was clearly spitballing because I made it with GW 2-row and Munich. Both beers were made with Edelweiss hops and the same blob of Omega 113. The helles was brewed in October. I put the helles on tap over the weekend and it was pretty cloudy. I had just moved the keg so I didn't think much of it. I let it sit overnight and had more yesterday... cloudy. Great flavor, head, etc. but cloudy. This is a beer that has sat cold for SIX MONTHS! I thought of hitting it with a gel solution but if there was ever an example of a beer that won't clear, it's one that has sat cold for six months and is still cloudy. But, I did hit it with gel last night. I'm willing to accept that it's the GW 2-row although I don't understand the WHY of it. That malt made other good (clear) beers. By this time I would have been squarely in the "get the strike water to a pH of 5.5" process and my notes tell me I did the same here. The only variable is the base malt but why would GW 2-row cause a stubborn haze when Best Malz and Avangard Pils created such a beautifully clear beer? This is one of those very mysterious areas that peeve me because I don't understand how to avoid it. I would think that GW 2-row would be a lower-maintenance malt than a German pilsner malt. I might pitch this on the AHA forum to see what kind of response I get.
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Post by brewbama on Apr 25, 2022 8:50:14 GMT -6
Interesting you say this. I also have a beer that I believe should be clear by now but is also hazy. Flavor is spot on. Head retention is low. I attribute it to one or a combination of a few things:
1. This was my first No Sparge beer. Being a trial run I didn’t know how much efficiency hit to expect so I simply deducted 5%. It came in ‘hot’ so I did not boil as long. I usually boil 60 minutes but this batch was boiled 15. Maybe this 45 minute boil deficit did not rid my wort of various proteins. 🤷♂️
2. I transferred to a keg with yeast still in suspension and a few points left to finish gravity. I was pulling gobs of yeast from the first few pints. It could be yeast in suspension but Bry-97 usually drops clear for me by now. I have noticed it getting a bit clearer as the pints are pulled. Clear beer is not the end all be all but I know what I usually get and this ain’t it. 😂
3. This keg does not have a floating dip tube. I took the floating dip tube out of this keg because it is the Torpedo version from MoreBeer which doesn’t perform well. There is a mod to install SS washers but I’ve not completed that task yet. So I am comparing apples to oranges at this point. I’ve not added gelatin to a beer in a long time but this one is a candidate.
So, we’ll see.
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Post by Ken on Apr 25, 2022 9:09:04 GMT -6
I suppose that boil rate COULD be a variable but I have boiled 30 minutes with a decent rolling boil... not overly weak. All of my kegs are the same type... ball lock, no floating dip tubes, etc. All processes would have been the same. I really dislike mysteries.  |
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Post by brewbama on Apr 26, 2022 17:27:16 GMT -6
Well, time has been good to the Pub Ale. It is *finally* clear. Still has foam issues though 🤷♂️. Oh well. Life goes on.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Post by gusso on Apr 26, 2022 18:23:10 GMT -6
Looks nice. My thing is that I always have good foam but clarity is another story. Most likely because I'm too impatient?
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Post by tommymorris on Apr 26, 2022 18:50:38 GMT -6
What’s wrong with the foam? It looks good.
Gusso- you impatient? What?! 😂
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