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Post by Ken on Oct 22, 2021 7:47:47 GMT -6
Since I made some changes that I consider to be "LO", I have noticed that beers where crystal malt is used have a very accentuated crystal flavor. I don't know how to describe it but it's almost like my older, oxidized beers would hide that character but the newer processes are letting it come through much, much more. Two examples: I had made a pale ale with pilsner malt and some caravienne and the color looked sort of "pilsner-like". I thought the grist might make a nice pilsner so I made one that way and used a bunch of Edelweiss. Not traditional, I know. But the Caravienne was really dominant for some reason. I realize I could have resolved that with more hops but I didn't think I needed it. Then I made my MLPA (Memory Lapse Pale Ale) which is a weird recipe with one pound of C60 in it and just barely offset by about 25 IBUs of Mt. Hood. I hadn't made it in awhile. The beer is good but the maltiness is REALLY up there. I almost want to add a bag of hops to the keg. Some of this must have to do with these LO-type steps. So I have [what I call] an American Pub Ale coming up this weekend... 2-row malt and then 4 ounces each of British Crystal and Special B, Northern Brewer hops and Liberty late. Would using some amylase enzyme help to dry out the finish of this beer or will crystal malt not be impacted by the enzyme? On one hand I can't see it hurting but I have to admit that I have never tried it. Thoughts?
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Post by poptop on Oct 22, 2021 8:06:41 GMT -6
I can't speak to the LO method but if your intent is to use crystal why would you want to dry it up? Remember it's me your talking to, the not-so-science guy. I have pulled so far away from using crystal in general except for my latest lager. Caramunich is about all I add if I'm looking for a bit of caramel. Not trying to derail here. Just curious; why dry?
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Post by Ken on Oct 22, 2021 8:12:25 GMT -6
I can't speak to the LO method but if your intent is to use crystal why would you want to dry it up? Remember it's me your talking to, the not-so-science guy. I have pulled so far away from using crystal in general except for my latest lager. Caramunich is about all I add if I'm looking for a bit of caramel. Not trying to derail here. Just curious; why dry? I have also been pulling away from crystal primarily because I make so many lagers and I will use either Munich 2 or Copper malt to get some depth and color on those. But a pound of C60 used to just make a dark, malty beer here. This latest one is over-the-top caramelly and I even used more hops in it than usual to try to prevent that. I don't necessarily want to make it mouth-puckeringly dry just a little less malty than it turned out. I have to assume that oxidation in my old batches scrubbed out some of this character and the pseudo-LO steps I am taking are preserving more of it than ever before. Btw, this latest batch of MLPA was an attempt at making it the way I used to make it years ago. I also came up with a newer version... less crystal and more hops. This one was more crystal and less hops and again... the beer is good. It's drinkable but it's VERY malty. I will always be a student of this hobby, that's for sure. |
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Post by bklmt2000 on Oct 22, 2021 8:26:23 GMT -6
Since I made some changes that I consider to be "LO", I have noticed that beers where crystal malt is used have a very accentuated crystal flavor. I don't know how to describe it but it's almost like my older, oxidized beers would hide that character but the newer processes are letting it come through much, much more. Two examples: I had made a pale ale with pilsner malt and some caravienne and the color looked sort of "pilsner-like". I thought the grist might make a nice pilsner so I made one that way and used a bunch of Edelweiss. Not traditional, I know. But the Caravienne was really dominant for some reason. I realize I could have resolved that with more hops but I didn't think I needed it. Then I made my MLPA (Memory Lapse Pale Ale) which is a weird recipe with one pound of C60 in it and just barely offset by about 25 IBUs of Mt. Hood. I hadn't made it in awhile. The beer is good but the maltiness is REALLY up there. I almost want to add a bag of hops to the keg. Some of this must have to do with these LO-type steps. So I have [what I call] an American Pub Ale coming up this weekend... 2-row malt and then 4 ounces each of British Crystal and Special B, Northern Brewer hops and Liberty late. Would using some amylase enzyme help to dry out the finish of this beer or will crystal malt not be impacted by the enzyme? On one hand I can't see it hurting but I have to admit that I have never tried it. Thoughts?
The amylase will help chew up some of the dextrins in the crystal malt and dry out the finish some. You'll still taste some crystal, but it should be reduced over not using any amylase.
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Post by Ken on Oct 22, 2021 8:38:43 GMT -6
Since I made some changes that I consider to be "LO", I have noticed that beers where crystal malt is used have a very accentuated crystal flavor. I don't know how to describe it but it's almost like my older, oxidized beers would hide that character but the newer processes are letting it come through much, much more. Two examples: I had made a pale ale with pilsner malt and some caravienne and the color looked sort of "pilsner-like". I thought the grist might make a nice pilsner so I made one that way and used a bunch of Edelweiss. Not traditional, I know. But the Caravienne was really dominant for some reason. I realize I could have resolved that with more hops but I didn't think I needed it. Then I made my MLPA (Memory Lapse Pale Ale) which is a weird recipe with one pound of C60 in it and just barely offset by about 25 IBUs of Mt. Hood. I hadn't made it in awhile. The beer is good but the maltiness is REALLY up there. I almost want to add a bag of hops to the keg. Some of this must have to do with these LO-type steps. So I have [what I call] an American Pub Ale coming up this weekend... 2-row malt and then 4 ounces each of British Crystal and Special B, Northern Brewer hops and Liberty late. Would using some amylase enzyme help to dry out the finish of this beer or will crystal malt not be impacted by the enzyme? On one hand I can't see it hurting but I have to admit that I have never tried it. Thoughts?
The amylase will help chew up some of the dextrins in the crystal malt and dry out the finish some. You'll still taste some crystal, but it should be reduced over not using any amylase.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm envisioning. I don't want to cancel out the crystal altogether... otherwise I would just not use it. I'll use some this weekend and see what happens. |
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Post by gusso on Oct 22, 2021 16:16:39 GMT -6
I rarely use crystal malts. Maybe 1 out of 10 gets a bit. If that.
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Post by poptop on Oct 22, 2021 17:46:56 GMT -6
I rarely use crystal malts. Maybe 1 out of 10 gets a bit. If that. That's how I have gravitated to as well. No HATE on crystal, but I seem to like beers where less is more. |
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Post by tommymorris on Oct 23, 2021 14:41:15 GMT -6
I like C40 and C60 in my pale ales, IPAs, and Porters. I usually keep it to 5% or less of the malt bill. I don’t find them sweet. I typically mash low and bitter to the high end of a styles guidelines (or often 5-10 IBU beyond). That dries them out to my taste.
When I make an amber ale I go up to 10%. That is more sweet. But, I like that in an amber.
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Post by Ken on Oct 23, 2021 15:00:50 GMT -6
I'm on a run of ales right now and ales tend to get more crystal malt here unless it's something like a blonde ale. Lagers generally don't get much in the way of crystal unless it's a smidge of caramunich, caravienne or copper malt. I suppose I could use less crystal and add some MW or something. In today's beer, I had 8 ounces total of crystal, I upped the bittering and also the late hops addition, used a bit of CaSO4 in the mash and also added around a ¼ tsp of amylase enzyme (the dosage for 5 gallons is a ½ tsp) so let's see how it comes out. This MLPA is actually decently balanced but I was drinking my festbier which is just pils and munich 2 and generally dry. Then that keg kicked and I put the MLPA on tap and it smelled and tasted like candy in comparison. But I had some on another night and started with it and it's better.
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Post by brewbama on Oct 23, 2021 21:24:49 GMT -6
I’m usually at ~5% when I use Caramel/Crystal/Cara- malts. I hit peek C malt a while back and have been dialing them back a bit since.
Like Tommy, my latest Amber has a bit more but it also has a lot of cryo hop presence to counter the C malts fairly well. I would not consider it sweet. More like a hop bomb! 😂 …but in a good way.
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Post by Seven on Oct 24, 2021 8:47:38 GMT -6
I seem to use CaraPils and Golden Naked Oats more than other crystal/caramel malts. I like building additional maltiness and perception of sweetness with Vienna.
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