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Post by tommymorris on Jan 19, 2021 18:25:32 GMT -6
I am curious about thoughts on bitterness perception for different hops. With Magnum I generally get a nice tickling. I like that but it is very gentle. With Chinook I get a lingering bitterness that if overdone can be a bit harsh. This fall I really liked Sierra Nevada Oktoberfest. The bitterness there was like a big punch but at the same time not harsh. Online the SN website lists Spalter and Spalter Select as hops. In your experience, how do these hops present themselves for bitterness? sierranevada.com/beer/oktoberfest/ |
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 18:34:59 GMT -6
I feel like anything noble is going to give you smooth, clean bitterness. Anything overdone can be edgy and Chinook (in my limited experience using it as a bittering hop) can be very coarse and aggressive. For ales I use a lot of Horizon and Nugget... both are great, clean & smooth varieties that are high alpha. For lagers I often use Magnum and also Northern Brewer but if it's a traditional German or Czech beer I might use Hallertau, Tettnanger, Spalt, Saaz, Hersbrucker, etc. and they are always smooth bitterness-wise.
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Post by zymot on Jan 19, 2021 19:42:32 GMT -6
Magnum is a pretty neutral bitterness. With it's high AA rating and moderate price. I use it when ordering online and I do not know the AA value at the time of ordering. I am confident an ounce or two will work for any beer I am brewing. I have heard magnum makes a nice flavor and/or aroma hop. Never seen a recipe that calls for magnum late in the boil.
I like Northern Brewer as a solid neutral bittering hop. Typically around 8% AA. Works good in IPA with C-sops in the late boil.
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Post by drez on Jan 19, 2021 20:05:34 GMT -6
Magnum is a pretty neutral bitterness. With it's high AA rating and moderate price. I use it when ordering online and I do not know the AA value at the time of ordering. I am confident an ounce or two will work for any beer I am brewing. I have heard magnum makes a nice flavor and/or aroma hop. Never seen a recipe that calls for magnum late in the boil. I like Northern Brewer as a solid neutral bittering hop. Typically around 8% AA. Works good in IPA with C-sops in the late boil. SN torpedo has magnum late and in the dryhop. I never tried it on one of my own though. I agree in Northern Brewer. I think it is an underated hop. |
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Post by tommymorris on Jan 19, 2021 20:28:03 GMT -6
Is Spalter the same as Spalt? I am not looking for neutral. I liked the punch of the SN Festbier. I was wondering if Spalt or Spalter Select was the thing I was noticing.
I am honestly not sure what I was tasting. Maybe they just make better beer than me. I like the intensity of flavor in many SN beers.
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 21:08:35 GMT -6
Is Spalter the same as Spalt? I am not looking for neutral. I liked the punch of the SN Festbier. I was wondering if Spalt or Spalter Select was the thing I was noticing. I am honestly not sure what I was tasting. Maybe they just make better beer than me. I like the intensity of flavor in many SN beers. Anything with the "ER" on the end is the same... Tettnang/Tettnanger, Hallertau/Hallertauer, Spalt/Spalter, etc. There is Spalt Select and just regular Spalt, I believe. Here's something: In the Tipopils thread there are links to the article with the Tipopils brewer. He had a few comments about he much he loves Spalt hops and how they are an old hop but that he feels they were ignored for awhile and how they're back so they're a new hop again. He mentioned something about their punchy, herbal & aromatic character and I have to agree with him. I had a beer on tap a few weeks ago that had some late Spalt (and the hops were in very good shape) and the finish on the beer was great. Last weekend I made a pilsnery kind of thing (pilsner malt, Munich 1, Magnum and two big additions of late Spalt, 838) and my hope was to duplicate this great character I had in a previous beer. The morale: Spalt is a fantastic hop when it's fresh and it can get you a nice OOMPH! |
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 21:15:27 GMT -6
Here is a snip from that article I mentioned. This is from Angostino Arioli if Birrificio Italiano:
So maybe you need to get some Spalt Select and take it for a spin.
Also, you just made me go downstairs and check some new hops I received from YVH in the past week. I know that I ordered SPALT but I wasn't sure they were SELECT. They are. German Spalt Select at 4.7% and I just used the last of the previous package and those were also from YVH and also 4.7% so I have been using Spalt Select for the past couple of months and I have a new package of them. Maybe I'll take another whack at Tipopils when I have 2124 up and running and use a ton of these Spalt Select.
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Post by tommymorris on Jan 19, 2021 21:35:03 GMT -6
Thanks! I am definitely going to try some Spalt Select. I think I may also try dry hopping some lagers. That may also be important. I don’t dry hop much and have never done it with a lager.
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Post by Ken on Jan 19, 2021 21:48:10 GMT -6
Thanks! I am definitely going to try some Spalt Select. I think I may also try dry hopping some lagers. That may also be important. I don’t dry hop much and have never done it with a lager. I'm not a big dry hop guy but the concept of the dry-hopped pilsner was interesting to me. I also love Pivo Pils which has a nice, hoppy kick but it's NOT going to be mistaken for an IPA. I think the key here (as we discussed in another thread) is making sure that the hops you choose are in the best possible shape. As good as the Spalt Select are, I could see something being done with Edelweiss too. It could be an amber lager, a dark lager, etc. as long as the hops are FRESH. I'll be reporting back on this when the beer I just made is on tap... probably a couple months off. |
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2021 9:06:16 GMT -6
After posting in here I remembered that a few years ago I went out and got some off-the-map German hops to try: Saphir, Opal, Tradition, Herkules, Hallertau Blanc and Hallertau Select. I know Drez likes the Blanc but I really liked the Select and what is wild is that I noticed that it was like a traditional noble hop but with more OOMPH. It was a much louder version of Hallertau if that makes sense. So now we see a Spalt Select and I feel like it's the same thing: Punchier. I don't really have any more information on what SELECT is all about or whether it's a completely different hop or a newly-bred version of the same hop or what but I feel like there is a pattern here.
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Post by drez on Jan 20, 2021 10:47:32 GMT -6
Here is a snip from that article I mentioned. This is from Angostino Arioli if Birrificio Italiano: So maybe you need to get some Spalt Select and take it for a spin. Also, you just made me go downstairs and check some new hops I received from YVH in the past week. I know that I ordered SPALT but I wasn't sure they were SELECT. They are. German Spalt Select at 4.7% and I just used the last of the previous package and those were also from YVH and also 4.7% so I have been using Spalt Select for the past couple of months and I have a new package of them. Maybe I'll take another whack at Tipopils when I have 2124 up and running and use a ton of these Spalt Select. I used Spalt in a Rye Pilsner a couple years back and really liked it. Maybe I should get some Spalt Select. I just came across this beer description from a "local" place and man I want this beer now. "German Afternoons was inspired by the hoppy Pils of Northern Germany. Instead of the mineral-rich water typically found in these Pils, we brewed it with our soft water along with our favorite German hop - Spalt Select. A single decoction and the Bavarian heritage malt Barke provide a beautiful platform for aggressive Noble hopping. This makes German Afternoons a crisp and dry Pils with lingering bitterness alongside moderate and pronounced noble European hop aroma and flavor." |
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2021 10:58:58 GMT -6
Here is a snip from that article I mentioned. This is from Angostino Arioli if Birrificio Italiano: So maybe you need to get some Spalt Select and take it for a spin. Also, you just made me go downstairs and check some new hops I received from YVH in the past week. I know that I ordered SPALT but I wasn't sure they were SELECT. They are. German Spalt Select at 4.7% and I just used the last of the previous package and those were also from YVH and also 4.7% so I have been using Spalt Select for the past couple of months and I have a new package of them. Maybe I'll take another whack at Tipopils when I have 2124 up and running and use a ton of these Spalt Select. I used Spalt in a Rye Pilsner a couple years back and really liked it. Maybe I should get some Spalt Select. I just came across this beer description from a "local" place and man I want this beer now. "German Afternoons was inspired by the hoppy Pils of Northern Germany. Instead of the mineral-rich water typically found in these Pils, we brewed it with our soft water along with our favorite German hop - Spalt Select. A single decoction and the Bavarian heritage malt Barke provide a beautiful platform for aggressive Noble hopping. This makes German Afternoons a crisp and dry Pils with lingering bitterness alongside moderate and pronounced noble European hop aroma and flavor." Mmm, yeah. All of that sounds great. Who brews "German Afternoons"? I'm going to admit right now that I was just thinking Spalt was Spalt. Yes, I would see it as Spalt Spalter, etc. but I believe there is a difference between Spalt Spalter and Spalt Select with the former being a bit more tame and the latter being a bit punchier. This beer I made last Saturday was Best Malz Pils + Munich 1 (80/20) and then just a smidge of copper malt, then 23 IBUs of Magnum and then 1.25 ounces of Spalt Select at 5 and another 1.25 ounces at 2. I wanted the Spalt Select to come through but I wonder now if I should have added more. I could also dry hop it for 3-4 days. These are the types of things that really get me interested... a twist on a classic German lager. |
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Post by drez on Jan 20, 2021 11:54:59 GMT -6
That is made by Notch. They started to ship instate so I have been getting their stuff a lot, just signed up for a 6 month subscription. I can see getting German Afternoons next week. It will be glorious!
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Post by tommymorris on Jan 20, 2021 15:56:52 GMT -6
I read that Spalt is a hard cultivar to grow. Spalt Select is a newer version that grows better. It also has higher oil content and therefore is a bit spicier.
PS. I bought some Spalt Select last night from Yakima Valley Hops. Shipped today.
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Post by Ken on Jan 20, 2021 16:12:48 GMT -6
I read that Spalt is a hard cultivar to grow. Spalt Select is a newer version that grows better. It also has higher oil content and therefore is a bit spicier. PS. I bought some Spalt Select last night from Yakima Valley Hops. Shipped today. Those are the exact hops I bought. You can expect them to be 4.7% unless they're working with multiple harvest years. I think you'll like them. |
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