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Post by Ken on Aug 29, 2020 8:53:41 GMT -6
I was in the Dallas area Sunday thru Friday this past week. I was in the western burbs visiting my [new] home office. One of the execs there has been a homebrewer for a long time and we have discussed brewing many times but it was all pretty basic, surface stuff as we mainly focused on work. Occasionally he would mention "the brewery" and I wasn't sure what he was talking about. On Wednesday we had plans to go to dinner and he said "We'll stop at the brewery too!" and I had to ask what he was talking about. He opened a brewery called OUTFIT BREWING in Dallas. I was pretty impressed considering I had no idea he even had the desire to do that. Full disclosure: The property is a part of a building the company owns so he has no rent. He also found some people to run the place although he brews the beer himself. The first pic is a Kolsch he had on tap and after that I had a nice Czech Pils. His beers are excellent. He sent me home with a sixer (16oz cans) of the Czech Pils. His system is painfully manual. He does not obsess over pH or water composition. He has never had a water test. As I peppered him with questions I realized he is making great beer without wringing his hands over many of the small things that brewers think about. The brewery had the obligatory 'bearded guy' and a beautiful dog named Domino (Huskie-type dog with one blue eye, one brown). I was impressed and surprised. Getting all used equipment and then having no rent clearly helps. They have room inside for about 100 people and an outdoor space with a canopy and picnic tables. The system is a 5-bbl. Also, the guy in the pic is NOT the brewer but someone who works with us.
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Post by drez on Aug 29, 2020 9:17:05 GMT -6
I read a lot of commercial breweries do not worry about water and pH. I think for some it will work out but only for some styles. No way he will pull off a true hazy NEIPA without adjusting the water imo.
Cool looking place. Wish ya got a picture of the dog.
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Post by Ken on Aug 29, 2020 9:58:40 GMT -6
She wouldn't stand still long enough for me to get a good shot of her. She was super sweet. On Thursday the brewer was at the brewery making a 3bbl batch of NEIPA. He said he adds a bit of sulfate for that style. He also said he talked with many commercial brewers in the area and they all told him that Dallas water is "great for brewing". That's fine but I would rather know what's going on. I didn't want to go too far with that conversation and make it seem like I was criticizing his approach. He kept saying to me "You're a much better brewer than me and you are much more detailed-oriented" which I had to wave off since he really has no idea what my beers are like. But I was asking detailed questions and he really had no answer. He told me he also picks up IREKS malt for $25 for 55 pounds and they were laid out on the tables for the brewday. I've heard of IREKS but have never bought it or used it. Never even seen a supplier offer it. Bottom line, his beers were very good so I guess my point is that sometimes we might get bogged down in the numbers and the little stuff and that it's possible to make very good beer at the commercial level and *NOT* stress over some of that stuff. I know some people who would wince at that approach but it's hard to argue with the result.
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Post by jimdkc on Aug 29, 2020 11:08:18 GMT -6
Local brewery in Kansas City that specializes in classic German styles and techniques, KC Bier Co., uses IREKS Malt. I like their stuff, particularly their Dunkel. (Their Festbier should be out now. I'll have to look for it!)
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Post by drez on Aug 29, 2020 11:09:18 GMT -6
I just heard of that malt on a podcast with KC bier. They say it is the malt Eric Toft Schönramer brewmaster uses. Maybe only available commercially?
Adding sulfate to a NEIPA is odd.
I agree that we as homeowners worry about all the little things. I think it is more that we can while they have so much else going on.
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Post by drez on Aug 29, 2020 11:10:15 GMT -6
Local brewery in Kansas City that specializes in classic German styles and techniques, KC Bier Co., uses IREKS Malt. I like their stuff, particularly their Dunkel. (Their Festbier should be out now. I'll have to look for it!) Is their stuff good? That podcast made me want to search it out.
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Post by jimdkc on Aug 29, 2020 11:20:46 GMT -6
Local brewery in Kansas City that specializes in classic German styles and techniques, KC Bier Co., uses IREKS Malt. I like their stuff, particularly their Dunkel. (Their Festbier should be out now. I'll have to look for it!) Is their stuff good? That podcast made me want to search it out. Yeah, I like the ones I've tried: Pils, Dunkel, and Maibock. I also tried their new Summer Seasonal, Der Bauer (German for "The Farmer"), which they describe as a German-style interpretation of a traditional farmhouse ale. It just tasted like a Sasion to me!
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Post by Ken on Aug 29, 2020 11:38:06 GMT -6
Looks like THIS place has Ireks malt for sale. I did a little digging and I see that it's a Bavarian malting company so that's encouraging. I would absolutely try it. I might get some Ireks malt (maybe 20 pounds or something) and then look for a sack if I liked it. I think my buddy the brewer said he buys it from another (larger) commercial brewery who sells it to him. I heard of it many years ago and what I remember of it may have been Ireks malt extract. Otherwise I have not heard much about it in homebrewing circles. I might pick some up just to see what's what.
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Post by jimdkc on Aug 29, 2020 13:34:13 GMT -6
I just heard of that malt on a podcast with KC bier. They say it is the malt Eric Toft Schönramer brewmaster uses. Maybe only available commercially? Adding sulfate to a NEIPA is odd. I agree that we as homeowners worry about all the little things. I think it is more that we can while they have so much else going on. Is this the podcast you're referring to? Craft Beer & Brewing Episode 149
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Post by drez on Aug 29, 2020 14:18:59 GMT -6
I just heard of that malt on a podcast with KC bier. They say it is the malt Eric Toft Schönramer brewmaster uses. Maybe only available commercially? Adding sulfate to a NEIPA is odd. I agree that we as homeowners worry about all the little things. I think it is more that we can while they have so much else going on. Is this the podcast you're referring to? Craft Beer & Brewing Episode 149Yes. They had some recipes and an interview in a recent issue of the magazine as well.
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Post by jimdkc on Aug 29, 2020 14:37:46 GMT -6
Listening to the podcast... I've had the Helles, too. That and the Dunkel are my favorites of theirs.
I actually have that magazine (Craft Beer & Brewing, June/July 2020). It includes a homebrew version of their Pils. I'm intrigued by the decoction method in this recipe. They boil a portion of the grain BEFORE mashing, then put the decoction in the mash tun and add the rest of the grain bill and water. Sounds like a much simpler and less messy way to do a decoction!
Also in that same issue, just a few pages back, a homebrew-scaled version of Birrificio Italiano Tipopils by Agostino Arioli, founder of Birrificio Italiano.
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Post by Ken on Aug 29, 2020 18:55:34 GMT -6
Listening to the podcast... I've had the Helles, too. That and the Dunkel are my favorites of theirs. I actually have that magazine (Craft Beer & Brewing, June/July 2020). It includes a homebrew version of their Pils. I'm intrigued by the decoction method in this recipe. They boil a portion of the grain BEFORE mashing, then put the decoction in the mash tun and add the rest of the grain bill and water. Sounds like a much simpler and less messy way to do a decoction! Also in that same issue, just a few pages back, a homebrew-scaled version of Birrificio Italiano Tipopils by Agostino Arioli, founder of Birrificio Italiano. I would ask you to post that article if you can since we have a 5+ page thread on Tipopils. I also like the sound of that decoction although I have a weird thing with decoctions: I feel like I should do them because I hear so many well-respected brewers talk about them as if they're absolutely necessary. But I have tried them and came to the conclusion that they did NOTHING for the finished beer. Could just be my unpolished tastebuds.
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Post by jimdkc on Aug 29, 2020 20:27:41 GMT -6
This is a great issue of the magazine... I must have just flipped through it quickly when I got it and then tossed it on the pile!
I'll put the Tipopils recipe in that thread...
Here's the KC Bier Pils w/Decoction Recipe:
5 Gallons 75% Efficiency OG: 1.046 FG: 1.010 IBUs: 35 ABV: 4.75
Grain Bill 10 lb. German Pilsner 8 oz. German Saurmalz (Acidulated malt)
Hops Schedule: 2 oz. Hallertaur Mittelfruh (4.0% AA) @ 60 minutes 0.7 oz. Hallertaur Mittelfruh (4.0% AA) @ 10 minutes
Yeast: 2 packets Fermentis SafLager 34/70 or 1.5 Gallon starter of White Labs WLP830 German Lager, Yeast 2124 Bohemian Lager, or similar
Directions: Prepare 8.5 gallons of charcoal-filtered water for mashing and sparging. Add calcium chloride to achieve about 100 ppm calcium
For the decoction: Combine the malts, then transfer 3 lb. of the malt to a pot. Add 1.5 gallons of 149 deg. F water to hit a mash temperature of 144 deg. F. Rest 20 minutes, add heat to maintain temp or insulate the pot. Slowly bring the mash to a boil and boil for 10-15 minutes.
Transfer the decocted mash to a later/mash tun. Add just enough cold water to reduce the mash temperature to 149 deg. F. Add the remaining malt (7.5 lb.) with up to 3.5 gallons hot water to rest at 149 deg. F. Rest for 45 minutes.
Sparge to collect about 6.5 gallons of word (or more depending on your boil-off rate). Boil for 75 minutes, following the hop schedule, to get 6 gallons of wort.
Chill to 48 deg. F, aerate the wort, and pitch the yeast. Ferment at 50 deg. F. Near the end of fermentation, allow the temperature to rise to 61 deg. F for a diacetyl rest. Rack the beer off the yeast and trub and lager for 3-5 weeks. Reduce the temp slowly by about 3 deg. F per day to avoid yeast shock, and finish lagering at 34-36 deg. F.
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Post by drez on Aug 30, 2020 6:25:00 GMT -6
Ken, did I send you the link to all the CBB pdfs I have? Those recipes are in there.
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Post by Ken on Aug 30, 2020 7:38:20 GMT -6
Ken, did I send you the link to all the CBB pdfs I have? Those recipes are in there. I don't remember seeing it but please post it here if you can. Reading Jim's decoction steps above tells me that there would be plenty of spots where I could futz that up but I always love hearing about things like this because who knows... it could be the secret to getting that certain something that you've been trying to get in your beer. Thanks Drez.
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