|
|
Post by Ken on Jun 17, 2020 20:40:21 GMT -6
I was going to order those Simcoe & Citra hops from YVH to make some ales towards the end of summer. This Swaen Ale malt, maybe wheat and C40, something for some bittering and then late Simcoe & Citra and all fermented with White Labs 01. What is the latest (lowest temp) anyone has added hops in the whirlpool? I have seen 170-175, etc., maybe let it steep for 15-20 minutes, etc. but those additions seem like a waste of hops. But I don't really want to dry hop these beers. So what do I do? Add the hops when the wort hits 100? 90? Let it sit there for 20-30 minutes to steep and then chill the rest of the way? I haven't really seen anyone discuss this type of hopping and I assume there's a reason why. Thoughts? Oh and my vision was 4 ounces each into the WP for a nice late hop bite.
|
|
|
|
Post by drez on Jun 18, 2020 5:29:22 GMT -6
Simcoe and Citra are great in the WP. I do not see how it is waste. For me it is a waste to use these hops before 15 minutes really. I drop to about 160-175 add my hops in and finish stuff up for about 30 minutes. I do not understand what you mean by "Late hop bite." The WP is supposed to give more flavor to the beer because you are not adding IBUs because of the temp, you will get little to no issomerization at sub 180. You will also see some biotransformation action because of the oils left in the wort as it ferments. I do not find WP hops add to the aroma much if any.
I know my hop tolerance is more than yours but what I would do it a bit of Magnum at 30, .5oz each simcoe and citra at 5, 2 oz each in the WP and then 2oz each in the DH. This will give a nice beer IMO where you will have hope flavor and some aroma but nothing over the top.
I would NOT add at 100 or 90.
What is the reasoning behind not wanting to dryhop?
|
|
|
|
Post by poptop on Jun 18, 2020 5:47:08 GMT -6
One thing I can say, is drez's advice is certainly consistent. I took it several hoppy batches ago and have not changed my method since then. I don't pay too close attention to the F, as I usually get caught up in cleaning or something and "almost" forget and it seems all my whirlpool hops go in around 180  This man's method is sound for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Seven on Jun 18, 2020 6:23:54 GMT -6
I've done as low as 110F without issue...I think I came across that temp in a Julius clone recipe and it worked well. I was also using kveik so my ferm temps were just slightly below that |
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Jun 18, 2020 6:30:13 GMT -6
I guess I'm trying to get DH character without adding the hops to the fermenter or keg. Adding hops to the WP at 90-100 would be risky from a sanitation standpoint... is that what you're thinking? I considered adding the DHs when the temp was lower because the temp of the wort/beer is low when you DH ordinarily. So 160° is about as low as you would normally add DHs, Drez?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Jun 18, 2020 6:31:12 GMT -6
I've done as low as 110F without issue...I think I came across that temp in a Julius clone recipe and it worked well. I was also using kveik so my ferm temps were just slightly below that Did the 110° temp create a character that was closer to DHing because the wort temp was lower? |
|
|
|
Post by drez on Jun 18, 2020 6:35:48 GMT -6
I guess I'm trying to get DH character without adding the hops to the fermenter or keg. Adding hops to the WP at 90-100 would be risky from a sanitation standpoint... is that what you're thinking? I considered adding the DHs when the temp was lower because the temp of the wort/beer is low when you DH ordinarily. So 160° is about as low as you would normally add DHs, Drez? I have gone lower but I just settle on 160 ish. I do not think WP is the same at all as DH. Not even close in my book. The aromatics are all blown off by fermentation. If you want DH characteristics you need to dry hop. If you are worried about oxygenation of the beer, don't. DH when you would spund, few points left and call it good. I think you have more of a chance of O2 issues with the C40 than the dh. |
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Jun 18, 2020 6:40:56 GMT -6
I guess I'm trying to get DH character without adding the hops to the fermenter or keg. Adding hops to the WP at 90-100 would be risky from a sanitation standpoint... is that what you're thinking? I considered adding the DHs when the temp was lower because the temp of the wort/beer is low when you DH ordinarily. So 160° is about as low as you would normally add DHs, Drez? I have gone lower but I just settle on 160 ish. I do not think WP is the same at all as DH. Not even close in my book. The aromatics are all blown off by fermentation. If you want DH characteristics you need to dry hop. If you are worried about oxygenation of the beer, don't. DH when you would spund, few points left and call it good. I think you have more of a chance of O2 issues with the C40 than the dh. So open the fermenter, toss in a muslin bag with the hops in it, close it up, let the beer finish and on the day when I transfer, just remove the bag and harvest the yeast? Do you suppose that yeast could now be used for a tame beer that isn't supposed to have any DH character (let's say a 25 IBU blonde ale or a dark, smooth ale) or would the next beer have DH character to it? |
|
|
|
Post by drez on Jun 18, 2020 6:50:08 GMT -6
I have gone lower but I just settle on 160 ish. I do not think WP is the same at all as DH. Not even close in my book. The aromatics are all blown off by fermentation. If you want DH characteristics you need to dry hop. If you are worried about oxygenation of the beer, don't. DH when you would spund, few points left and call it good. I think you have more of a chance of O2 issues with the C40 than the dh. So open the fermenter, toss in a muslin bag with the hops in it, close it up, let the beer finish and on the day when I transfer, just remove the bag and harvest the yeast? Do you suppose that yeast could now be used for a tame beer that isn't supposed to have any DH character (let's say a 25 IBU blonde ale or a dark, smooth ale) or would the next beer have DH character to it? I would not bag, let them swim! I would re-use the yeast. I do no think there will be any transfer of hop character after fermenting the next beer. |
|
|
|
Post by Seven on Jun 18, 2020 6:52:28 GMT -6
I've done as low as 110F without issue...I think I came across that temp in a Julius clone recipe and it worked well. I was also using kveik so my ferm temps were just slightly below that Did the 110° temp create a character that was closer to DHing because the wort temp was lower? Not really since it stayed at elevated temps (90F+) for at least 2 days until primary was mainly done. Lots of flavor, though. |
|
|
|
Post by drez on Jun 18, 2020 6:52:51 GMT -6
This is one of my favorite beers from this year. I will be brewing it again as soon as my #$#$#ing pump o-ring shows up. This has less hops than I normal use but was damn good. It would work good with some Simcoe and Citra.  |
|
|
|
Post by Ken on Jun 18, 2020 7:05:18 GMT -6
So open the fermenter, toss in a muslin bag with the hops in it, close it up, let the beer finish and on the day when I transfer, just remove the bag and harvest the yeast? Do you suppose that yeast could now be used for a tame beer that isn't supposed to have any DH character (let's say a 25 IBU blonde ale or a dark, smooth ale) or would the next beer have DH character to it? I would not bag, let them swim! I would re-use the yeast. I do no think there will be any transfer of hop character after fermenting the next beer. If I let the hops swim, how would you harvest the yeast? |
|
|
|
Post by drez on Jun 18, 2020 7:21:23 GMT -6
I would not bag, let them swim! I would re-use the yeast. I do no think there will be any transfer of hop character after fermenting the next beer. If I let the hops swim, how would you harvest the yeast? Like I always do ... In a mason jar. I have read the test of using clean vs dirty with no detectable difference. |
|
This man's method is sound for sure.