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Post by Ken on Apr 29, 2020 20:10:49 GMT -6
... got me thinking. How do you guys take your mash pH... at what temp and what do you target? It sounds like the consensus over there is that mash pH (taken at 'room temp') should be 5.4. I have been targeting Kai's 5.24 or so. I'm not sure that it makes a ton of difference but I do wonder how most brewers take their pH, at what temp and what pH is targeted.
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Post by drez on Apr 30, 2020 4:54:33 GMT -6
Funny, I brought this up in the brew board in August of 2018 after a HBT arguscussion about when to take it. They were pushing 30 minutes. I tend to be around 20 minutes but truthfully I try to just let it ride with what it is. I will write it down for reference later but not mess with it. I was always a 5.2 guy but I have got in the mindset of 5.2-5.5 is OK for me. Hoppy , bitter beers, are still around 5.2 but I shoot for 5.4 for my NEIPA styles.
I think another discussion on knock out pH would be good. I have been seeing more and more lowering pH ( to 5.00 ish) with acid prior to moving the the fermeter to help the yeast.
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Post by Ken on Apr 30, 2020 7:18:33 GMT -6
Yeah, some are mentioning 5.4 for a room-temp, mash measurement and 5.1 for a knockout measurement. I have never adjusted the pH of my wort at knockout but I could certainly do it if there was a reason to. But over at AHA, the people are arguing two different things: Mash pH vs. water pH (water pH is not relevant as long as you can adjust it, IMO) and then mash pH at mash temp vs. room temp. It sounds like they're saying that many commercial breweries will take a mash pH measurement at mash temps because they have inline measuring ability where most homebrewers will take a room-temp mash pH because our equipment may be damaged by the higher temp. But I'm cooling my sample and targeting 5.2. Should I be targeting 5.4 - 5.5 with a cooled sample? Seems like something I should have known by now only 20+ years into the hobby.
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Post by drez on Apr 30, 2020 7:26:58 GMT -6
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Post by neddles on Apr 30, 2020 7:29:04 GMT -6
oh boy
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Post by Ken on Apr 30, 2020 8:00:58 GMT -6
I'm going to have to mentally prepare myself before clicking that link.
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Post by Ken on Apr 30, 2020 8:26:40 GMT -6
Okay, that thread is very similar to the one on AHA and with many of the same players including Silver_Is_Money... who is annoying. Many posts are made without specifically mentioning the temperature at which the mash pH is taken which basically makes the post irrelevant. I could not read the whole thing because it's like watching pre-schoolers argue. So let me just ask those of you here on this board: When you take your mash pH reading, at what temp do you take the reading and what number do you target? I have been shooting for between 5.2 and 5.3 at about 75°F which sounds to me to be too low. I should be 5.4 or 5.5. Apparently the difference between mash temp and room temp is .3 so 5.5 room temp translates to 5.2 mash temp. Have I properly distilled that? We can talk about WHEN you take the reading but that's a different subject.
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Post by jkor on Apr 30, 2020 8:58:39 GMT -6
I got a pH meter a few years ago, it never worked out of the box so I just stopped taking mash pH. Oh well...
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Apr 30, 2020 9:31:00 GMT -6
How I go about pH is determined by what style of beer. I take mash pH at 20 minutes and 45 minutes, at room temperature. Hoppy/light colored beers the target is 5.1-5.3.
Darker or roasty beers, 5.3, to 5.5.
How I got these times are from Martin B, the Bru'n water spreadsheet author.
What BW and the meter are pretty dead on; -/+ a bit (ie target is 5.3, meter calls it 5.28)
Its been working good for me. Also, I calibrate and clean the probe every damn time. Lol
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Post by denny on Apr 30, 2020 14:17:52 GMT -6
How I go about pH is determined by what style of beer. I take mash pH at 20 minutes and 45 minutes, at room temperature. Hoppy/light colored beers the target is 5.1-5.3. Darker or roasty beers, 5.3, to 5.5. How I got these times are from Martin B, the Bru'n water spreadsheet author. What BW and the meter are pretty dead on; -/+ a bit (ie target is 5.3, meter calls it 5.28) Its been working good for me. Also, I calibrate and clean the probe every damn time. Lol Same here, also on advice from Martin. Measured at 68F. Some of those guys on the AHA forum are even more pedantic than I am! I had to walk away from that thread.
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Post by Ken on Apr 30, 2020 15:59:56 GMT -6
How I go about pH is determined by what style of beer. I take mash pH at 20 minutes and 45 minutes, at room temperature. Hoppy/light colored beers the target is 5.1-5.3. Darker or roasty beers, 5.3, to 5.5. How I got these times are from Martin B, the Bru'n water spreadsheet author. What BW and the meter are pretty dead on; -/+ a bit (ie target is 5.3, meter calls it 5.28) Its been working good for me. Also, I calibrate and clean the probe every damn time. Lol Same here, also on advice from Martin. Measured at 68F. Some of those guys on the AHA forum are even more pedantic than I am! I had to walk away from that thread. I know I have already said this but it's getting pretty tiresome to see so many people so interested in pointing out what other people do wrong and then bash them over the head with it and/or point and laugh. This applies to brewing, cooking, the way you repair your windshield, whatever.
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Post by jkor on May 1, 2020 6:46:47 GMT -6
Same here, also on advice from Martin. Measured at 68F. Some of those guys on the AHA forum are even more pedantic than I am! I had to walk away from that thread. I know I have already said this but it's getting pretty tiresome to see so many people so interested in pointing out what other people do wrong and then bash them over the head with it and/or point and laugh. This applies to brewing, cooking, the way you repair your windshield, whatever. The really stupid thing is those that are bashing other people for doing the "wrong" thing don't have legitimate proof that what they are doing is the "right" thing. There's about 5 homebrewers in existence that actually take the time and have the knowledge to tests their methods in a scientific manner. 99% of homebrewing advice is anecdotal. Though, to be fair, it used to be 99.9% about 20 years ago so we've made some progress.
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Post by Ken on May 1, 2020 7:01:40 GMT -6
I know I have already said this but it's getting pretty tiresome to see so many people so interested in pointing out what other people do wrong and then bash them over the head with it and/or point and laugh. This applies to brewing, cooking, the way you repair your windshield, whatever. The really stupid thing is those that are bashing other people for doing the "wrong" thing don't have legitimate proof that what they are doing is the "right" thing. There's about 5 homebrewers in existence that actually take the time and have the knowledge to tests their methods in a scientific manner. 99% of homebrewing advice is anecdotal. Though, to be fair, it used to be 99.9% about 20 years ago so we've made some progress. It's true, more truly scientific people are looking for better ways to do things but in many cases it seems like what they really want to do is 1) tell everyone how smart they are, 2) tell everyone how much time they have spent working on this, 3) tell everyone else how dumb they are 4) get as much attention as possible by acting like a child, 5) discuss things in terms others can't even understand without telling us what the everyday impact is, 6) be as condescending as possible the entire time and make assumptions about other people's processes and the suckiness of their beer. I keep mentioning over at AHA that people make beer at home for their own consumption and if they like it, let them like it. If someone were to come onto a board and explain some interesting concept and say that beer improved after using it... that's excellent. Of course others will say it's "confirmation bias" but if you're going to do it, explain what you did and leave it there without resorting to all of the above behavioral issues. I'll post this again for reference... Also, I think "shitcock" is going to be my new beer forum handle.
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Post by jkor on May 1, 2020 8:14:55 GMT -6
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Post by Leftympfrmde on May 1, 2020 8:22:12 GMT -6
The really stupid thing is those that are bashing other people for doing the "wrong" thing don't have legitimate proof that what they are doing is the "right" thing. There's about 5 homebrewers in existence that actually take the time and have the knowledge to tests their methods in a scientific manner. 99% of homebrewing advice is anecdotal. Though, to be fair, it used to be 99.9% about 20 years ago so we've made some progress. It's true, more truly scientific people are looking for better ways to do things but in many cases it seems like what they really want to do is 1) tell everyone how smart they are, 2) tell everyone how much time they have spent working on this, 3) tell everyone else how dumb they are 4) get as much attention as possible by acting like a child, 5) discuss things in terms others can't even understand without telling us what the everyday impact is, 6) be as condescending as possible the entire time and make assumptions about other people's processes and the suckiness of their beer. I keep mentioning over at AHA that people make beer at home for their own consumption and if they like it, let them like it. If someone were to come onto a board and explain some interesting concept and say that beer improved after using it... that's excellent. Of course others will say it's "confirmation bias" but if you're going to do it, explain what you did and leave it there without resorting to all of the above behavioral issues. I'll post this again for reference... Also, I think "shitcock" is going to be my new beer forum handle. "Shitcock" is a good compound cuss word. My personal favorite is "Assballs".😁 All kidding aside, the confirmation bias and, for lack of a better term, the flexing and strutting online on how to do things, homebrewing, for example, is a big turn off for me. Just because something works on one person's process doesn't mean it works for someone else. Their is a lot of good information online about brewing. Also, there is a ton of bad information out their as well. I believe our group, we are a gaggle of seasoned brewers, with a boat load of experience. We have no need to condescend to others b/c they had a question or follow a certain procedure. Also, none of us claim to know it all, which is a sign of intelligence and humility; something severely lacking in other forums/brew clubs. The ever ongoing debate about secondary is a prime example lol. Just keep an open mind 😁
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