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Post by Ken on Jan 23, 2024 13:25:30 GMT -6
I didn't read it until it was locked. But I did eventually read it and the part where someone was suggesting that a mash needed to be constantly stirred interested me. Didn't you mention that you once experimented with this and stirred your mash a number of times over the course of the mash and then on another batch you didn't stir at all and the result was .. it doesn't matter. Do I remember that right? Is there new evidence that says that a mash needs constant agitation? That thread was a trainwreck and you were right to pour cold water on it, IMO. Cheers.
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Post by Megary on Jan 23, 2024 13:51:10 GMT -6
I feel as though I was an accomplice to that train wreck. At the very least, an agitator.
But I also would like opinions on the idea of constant recirculation of a mash, or recirculation in general.
My understanding is this:
If you have to add heat to hold a desired temperature, then you should recirculate in order to make sure the temperature is consistent throughout the mash.
If your mash temps hold (relatively) steady after "doughing-in" and for the entire mash, then no heat is needed and thus no recirculation is needed.
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Post by Ken on Jan 23, 2024 14:18:20 GMT -6
I feel as though I was an accomplice to that train wreck. At the very least, an agitator. But I also would like opinions on the idea of constant recirculation of a mash, or recirculation in general. My understanding is this: If you have to add heat to hold a desired temperature, then you should recirculate in order to make sure the temperature is consistent throughout the mash. If your mash temps hold (relatively) steady after "doughing-in" and for the entire mash, then no heat is needed and thus no recirculation is needed. Asking questions and challenging ideas is what we're supposed to do. The one guy in the thread (Huck Davidson) was the first to throw hands and make it personal, IMO. People can share information and even debate it without having the thread locked. I thought I saw that many of the "all-in-one" systems keep the mash temp right where it's supposed to be for the entire mash time and recirc as well. I'm about as old-school as it gets .. mashing in a cylinder-shaped cooler with a mash cap. I take the temp with a Thermapen and once I jot down that temp, I leave the mash for 60 minutes and run it off. AFAIK, I have never taken the temp of the mash after 60 minutes so see how much drift there is. Maybe someone can tell me if there is something to be learned there. The respectful exchange of ideas is what I like about this hobby and it usually happens .. like at a high rate .. over 99%, probably. That's what makes the disrespectful posts stand out. |
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Post by Megary on Jan 23, 2024 17:58:37 GMT -6
So…if the AIO’s hold mash temp constant and recirc for the entire mash, is there another point to recirculating besides assuring even mash temps through the entire kettle? Maybe it helps with efficiency.
Or maybe recirculating in this case is just some selling point that is otherwise unnecessary.
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Post by Ken on Jan 23, 2024 19:46:24 GMT -6
I'm willing to listen to anything on the topic. Maybe some cooler-mashers might say "start a bit higher knowing that the temp will drop" or whatever. Maybe some will say that it doesn't matter. You hear so many things on the topic of mashing. I heard of some people mashing for 20 minutes saying that "everything that can happen in 60 minutes can happen in 20" .. but meanwhile you hear of people mashing for 90 minutes saying that it makes all the difference. You'd have to try it to know. I already went from 60m boils to 30m (no issues) but I still mash for 60 minutes.
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Post by tommymorris on Jan 23, 2024 20:58:55 GMT -6
I think recirculating helps keep a constant and consistent temperature in the mash.
I mash in my kettle with no recirc and a thick beach towel wrapped around it. I take the temp after strike and walk away for 60-75 minutes. My mash loses several degrees minimum. Sometimes 5-7. It doesn’t seem to matter for the beers I brew (Pilsner and pale ales).
I have always wondered if my beers are drier than they would be with a constant circulation. But, my finish gravities aren’t lower than what I read other people get and my beers don’t taste overly dry. So, I have concluded the temp drop doesn’t matter to me.
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Post by tommymorris on Jan 23, 2024 21:01:57 GMT -6
The other thing I think recirc does is scoop up the trub into the mash basket so less trub is in your wort. I have been pouring everything (hop debris, trub, hot and cold break) into my fermenter since I started brewing. It seems to work. So, I don’t worry about extra trub that ends up on the bottom of the fermenter.
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Post by Leftympfrmde on Jan 23, 2024 23:38:06 GMT -6
Just some anecdotal expirance. Have had more consistent brew house efficiency and temperature mashing recirculating vs not.
Keep in mind,I've had 3 all grain systems; gravity fed cooler mashthun, then a Sankey keg and a pump, then recirculating thru a EHERMs.
All depends on methodology and system set up is my best guess.
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Post by denny on Jan 27, 2024 14:29:02 GMT -6
I didn't read it until it was locked. But I did eventually read it and the part where someone was suggesting that a mash needed to be constantly stirred interested me. Didn't you mention that you once experimented with this and stirred your mash a number of times over the course of the mash and then on another batch you didn't stir at all and the result was .. it doesn't matter. Do I remember that right? Is there new evidence that says that a mash needs constant agitation? That thread was a trainwreck and you were right to pour cold water on it, IMO. Cheers. Dont think it was me (just got back online after a week+ of internet out). That would be appropriate if you wanted to do a turbid mash, but none of the styles I like use that. That guy was just flat out wrong. FWIW, he asked me to delete his account and all his posts (like I've got time for that) because the AHA forum wasn't "his kind of place" |
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Post by denny on Jan 27, 2024 14:30:47 GMT -6
I'm willing to listen to anything on the topic. Maybe some cooler-mashers might say "start a bit higher knowing that the temp will drop" or whatever. Maybe some will say that it doesn't matter. You hear so many things on the topic of mashing. I heard of some people mashing for 20 minutes saying that "everything that can happen in 60 minutes can happen in 20" .. but meanwhile you hear of people mashing for 90 minutes saying that it makes all the difference. You'd have to try it to know. I already went from 60m boils to 30m (no issues) but I still mash for 60 minutes. Yeah, you hear lots of stuff about everyth8ng in brewing. Ya know hat matters? Your own experience and enjoyment. There's more than one road to the same destination. Do what works for you. Don't chase every whack brained theory you hear. |
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Post by denny on Jan 27, 2024 14:31:59 GMT -6
I think recirculating helps keep a constant and consistent temperature in the mash. I mash in my kettle with no recirc and a thick beach towel wrapped around it. I take the temp after strike and walk away for 60-75 minutes. My mash loses several degrees minimum. Sometimes 5-7. It doesn’t seem to matter for the beers I brew (Pilsner and pale ales). I have always wondered if my beers are drier than they would be with a constant circulation. But, my finish gravities aren’t lower than what I read other people get and my beers don’t taste overly dry. So, I have concluded the temp drop doesn’t matter to me. Going from a single temp cooler mash to a recirc AIO made NO difference in beer quality. Dryness has more to do with water and hopping than FG. |
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Post by Ken on Jan 27, 2024 15:24:27 GMT -6
I think recirculating helps keep a constant and consistent temperature in the mash. I mash in my kettle with no recirc and a thick beach towel wrapped around it. I take the temp after strike and walk away for 60-75 minutes. My mash loses several degrees minimum. Sometimes 5-7. It doesn’t seem to matter for the beers I brew (Pilsner and pale ales). I have always wondered if my beers are drier than they would be with a constant circulation. But, my finish gravities aren’t lower than what I read other people get and my beers don’t taste overly dry. So, I have concluded the temp drop doesn’t matter to me. Going from a single temp cooler mash to a recirc AIO made NO difference in beer quality. Dryness has more to do with water and hopping than FG. Interesting. |
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Post by denny on Jan 28, 2024 14:08:08 GMT -6
Going from a single temp cooler mash to a recirc AIO made NO difference in beer quality. Dryness has more to do with water and hopping than FG. Interesting. which part? |
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Post by Ken on Jan 28, 2024 14:39:50 GMT -6
The part where the constant recirc had no impact on beer quality. Interesting but not overly surprising, really. Many people who are more committed to this hobby and TBH, take themselves too seriously .. look at how I make beer and wince. Single infusion mash? You can't really make beer that way. Mash in a cooler? Please. You don't use all the LO processes? You're not serious. I have made great beer with my old-school equipment and relatively simple processes. If those judgmental people heard that they would assume my tastebuds don't work.  |
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Post by Megary on Jan 28, 2024 15:18:17 GMT -6
At the homebrew level, one does not need to LODO to make great tasting beer. I’ll die on that hill.
As a matter of fact, at the homebrew level one does not need to do a lot of things to make great tasting beer. That hill, too.
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